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fl.tom

Senior Member
No, that leaves it even more short of filling the required note values. The half cannot equal two "normal" quarters, because the actual 6/8 quarter does that. (See my notation in the prior measure. Also, in 6/8, a dotted quarter fills 3 counts.) I don't think it goes as far as filling the space of two 6/8 quarters- four counts. I've never seen a whole note used in 6/8- nothing larger than a dotted quarter, except for a whole note/rest, which disregards the convention of all the other notes' values and just occupies the entire measure, just as it does in 4/4.
No. While note “names” are rooted in subdividing a meter of 4, note “relationships” (i.e. their value to each other) do not change with meter. A half note and dotted quarter note do not morph into having the same value in different meters, and a half note doesn’t occupy a half measure of 6/8 any more than an eighth note occupies an eighth of a measure.

Although the notation here is atypical for 6/8, the 2nd measure does define 6 eighth notes... the half note being the first 4, the next two sixteenths being the 5th and the final eighth being the 6th.

Hopefully this helps clarify things further.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
So, if you are "not sure" why are you answering and so long? Hahahahaha...

I can play with any beaming, the notes alone, or whatever, but it is incorrect beaming (in a traditional context), this is not even for college level, that¨s why they ask you for getting there (for entering there), hahaha. It´s related also so you know how to write for other instruments other than drums................
oh man...I looked at the second measure as having the half note, and then 2 32's and an 8th...quick glance. But, the beaming is correct, even though it isn't traditional. And you are right in that if I was a wind player, I would sustain for the duration of the half note, then re-articulate the other rhythms.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
The usual way to write it would be a dotted quarter tied over to an 8th note, followed by the two sixteenths and the 8th note barred together at the top with each other.
Well, again, the question doesn't state you can change the notes, only the groupings and beamings, so I'm not sure what would be correct for the OP's teacher/curriculum.
 
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timmdrum

Silver Member
No. While note “names” are rooted in subdividing a meter of 4, note “relationships” (i.e. their value to each other) do not change with meter.
I didn't say they did. (Or did I? If I did, I didn't mean to. I'm losing track of the thread because I don't wanna keep scrolling up & down to see what was replied to what. :LOL:

A half note and dotted quarter note do not morph into having the same value in different meters, and a half note doesn’t occupy a half measure of 6/8 any more than an eighth note occupies an eighth of a measure.
I didn't say they did. (Or did I? See my other reply above. :LOL: I did say "The half cannot equal two 'normal' quarters, because the actual 6/8 quarter does that. (Meaning, two counts.) (See my notation in the prior measure. Also, in 6/8, a dotted quarter fills 3 counts.) I don't think it goes as far as filling the space of two 6/8 quarters- four counts." A dotted quarter occupies half a measure of 6/8. A half note- I don't know, because I don't recall ever seeing one, but if its relationship to quarters doesn't change, then it would occupy two quarters, which in this case, would be four counts, right?
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
Show me an example of written music that uses a whole note in 6/8.
I don't have one. I said "I've never seen a whole note used in 6/8- nothing larger than a dotted quarter, except for a whole note/rest...", but I meant to say just "rest", which I do recall seeing sometime in my ancient history of counting endless idle- sorry, tacet- measures in high school concert band, and indeed "disregards the convention of all the other notes' (and rests') values and just occupies the entire measure, just as it does in 4/4." I do recall seeing whole rests in 6/8. I'd imagine a whole note would be used in the same way, but again, as I stated, I've never seen it, so I don't have the example you're looking for.
 
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timmdrum

Silver Member
Sorry to be a jerk again, but the second measure does have enough notes. The usual way to write it would be a dotted quarter tied over to an 8th note, followed by the two sixteenths and the 8th note barred together at the top with each other.
Man, stop, hahahahaha!
Yeah, upon rereading my post, I wasn't counting that right. That 2nd measure does have enough note value- 4 counts for the half note, and "5 and 6" for the remaining. But, the question asks to correct groupings and beamings, so if that's wrong according to whatever curriculum the OP's course is using or to some other standard, I don't know what would be correct.
 
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A whole note as used in 4/4 would. As used in 6/8, it would not. That's not how they're used in 6/8.
A whole note is always a whole note, no matter what time signature it's in. It's just fractions. A whole note = 1 = 2/2 = 4/4 = 8/8 ...
What if the time signature was 17/16 and a whole note would fill up one bar (which it doesn't)? Then only 16 16th notes (16 * 1/16) would fit into one bar which by defintion holds 17 16th notes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Note_value
Maybe Marco Minnemann can play 16 over 17 but that's another topic.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
A whole note is always a whole note, no matter what time signature it's in. It's just fractions. A whole note = 1 = 2/2 = 4/4 = 8/8 ...
What if the time signature was 17/16 and a whole note would fill up one bar (which it doesn't)? Then only 16 16th notes (16 * 1/16) would fit into one bar which by defintion holds 17 16th notes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Note_value
Maybe Marco Minnemann can play 16 over 17 but that's another topic.
I misspoke on this, and addressed it earlier:
I said "I've never seen a whole note used in 6/8- nothing larger than a dotted quarter, except for a whole note/rest...", but I meant to say just "rest", which I do recall seeing sometime in my ancient history of counting endless idle- sorry, tacet- measures in high school concert band, and indeed "disregards the convention of all the other notes' (and rests', again, I meant) values and just occupies the entire measure, just as it does in 4/4." I do recall seeing whole rests in 6/8. I'd imagine a whole note would be used in the same way, but again, as I stated, I've never seen it...
That said, I have no idea if a whole rest or note would occupy an entire measure of any time sig that contains more than 16 16th notes. I do know a whole rest covers an entire measure of 6/8, and I imagine a whole note would as well, unless the rule for each is different, and it may well be.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
Ok!

This is what I've got so far, just getting used to finale so excuse any formatting errors!

Let me know what you think and thanks everyone for your help!
If you're allowed to change actual notes, and not just the groupings & beamings, then it looks correct to me. I think the question as stated is odd, but I tried to take it literally for you, because I don't have the context of your course curriculum.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Unless it's just this! lol
Not good.
This one you did earlier is better: https://www.drummerworld.com/forums/index.php?attachments/screenshot-4-png.90186/

There's multiple ways to notate things but some are easier to read and follow than others.
When you see 6/8, most people will count it as two chunks of three with an accent on
one and four (1,2,3,4,5,6).
Easiest to read would be the largest notes that will all fall within those chunks without crossing over the
implied (but not notated) mental bar line dividing 3 and 4 count.
I think you nailed it earlier with the example you listed towards the bottom of the first page.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
Ok!

This is what I've got so far, just getting used to finale so excuse any formatting errors!

Let me know what you think and thanks everyone for your help!
those are the way I also would have re- beamed the measures...

and from the beginning, I have thought that the question was sort of weird b/c I did not think the original excerpt needed re-beaming...
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
My only issue now is that looking at the 1st measure it resembles more 3/4 than 6/8
yeah...that will happen some times. Right away, I think of the song "America" from West Side Story which is famous for it's 3/4 into 6/8 groove that could have just been all written in either time sig, but for some reason wasn't - at least in the versions I have played in, and i have played the bass, and drum part in many versions of that musical
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
those are the way I also would have re- beamed the measures...

and from the beginning, I have thought that the question was sort of weird b/c I did not think the original excerpt needed re-beaming...
The quarter note in the first measure and the half note in the second measure both cross over the implied 3 to 4 bar line,
making it unnecessarily difficult to read.
 
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