Help Needed!!

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Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
you are missing a very important part of the definition of what the time signature does...and that is the role of the bottom number. So in 6/8, the 6 means 6 beats per measure...and the 8 means that the 8th note gets the pulse/beat. <- the answer to your question lies in understanding this. The feel has nothing to do with the answer to your question since they are asking you to correctly beam, or rebeam the rhythm, and not play it...

So to figure this out, you need to understand the rule of subdivision first -> every note can be divided into 2 smaller notes.

In your example, the 8th notes are now the reference pulse, and the 16th notes are now division of that pulse...

Like others, I don't want to give you the exact answer, but if you understand the 2 things I mentioned above, you should be able to figure this out on your own....
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
I do not think it's cheating to use help from people like us to figure out how to work a problem. It's not an inherent skill and clearly the coursework didn't properly teach him the skill to answer the question. I never understood the whole "if you don't figure it out on your own you'll never learn".

I see little distinction between reading a course book and talking to people who know the subject; except that talking to someone you have the option to clarify the response.
 

TMe

Senior Member
I never understood the whole "if you don't figure it out on your own you'll never learn".
Adult education courses are the worst. Half the courses I've taken have done nothing other than certify what I already knew, or learned on my own. If I'm already supposed to know the stuff, what am I taking the course for?

That's why I suggested using Google. Just look at a bunch of examples of music written in 6/8, and go with what looks cromulent.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
I never understood the whole "if you don't figure it out on your own you'll never learn".
My thing is, if I tell you, you might not understand still. So it's sort of like give a man a fish/teach a man to fish. I'll help, but that's it, help. If I am doing most of the work, it's no longer helping.
 

Mikethedrummer

Junior Member
you are missing a very important part of the definition of what the time signature does...and that is the role of the bottom number. So in 6/8, the 6 means 6 beats per measure...and the 8 means that the 8th note gets the pulse/beat. <- the answer to your question lies in understanding this. The feel has nothing to do with the answer to your question since they are asking you to correctly beam, or rebeam the rhythm, and not play it...

So to figure this out, you need to understand the rule of subdivision first -> every note can be divided into 2 smaller notes.

In your example, the 8th notes are now the reference pulse, and the 16th notes are now division of that pulse...

Like others, I don't want to give you the exact answer, but if you understand the 2 things I mentioned above, you should be able to figure this out on your own....
I get that the feel is irrelevant, I guess I should of said accent or pulse instead of feel, apologies. I'm struggling with the 2nd beat of each bar, they're written differently even though they're the same (to my eyes anyway).

I've got this so far (groovescribe)
 

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DrumDoug

Senior Member
There’s nothing “wrong”with either rhythm. There are 6 eighth notes in each measure. For all of you insisting there is, go read through Cirones Portraits In Rhythm. There are plenty of examples of rhythms written this way. For consistency you might beam the two 16th, 8th like in the first measure. Or separate the ones in the first measure so that it looks the same in both measures. Tommy Igoe just posted a good video about time signatures the other day. Check that out.
 

Alex Sanguinetti

Silver Member
This is what I got, it may not be correct though.
Right, it is NOT correct, and the previous example you posted too. Besides there are many crazy answers as usual...

To the poster, you need to take some theorie lessons about beaming, time signatures, etc.

Going to books, will not help you because what it is asked it is not necesarely an obligation to compile with when you write, in fact many drum books violate that on purpose to make you practice different grouping alternatives.

Best regards!
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
That's it, except there are no rests in the original thing-- use ties instead of rests.
Yes- the question as stated says to correct the groupings and beamings (the bars that connect note stems; and I'm left to assume that includes flags also).

Think of it this way, 6/8 = a triplet feel, counted in 2— dotted quarter note gets the beat, and you'll want to beam the notes in groups of three 8ths.
This is how the music is felt; to expand on that, 12/8 is used to avoid writing in 4/4 and having to put little 3's everywhere. That said:

you are missing a very important part of the definition of what the time signature does...and that is the role of the bottom number. So in 6/8, the 6 means 6 beats per measure...and the 8 means that the 8th note gets the pulse/beat. <- the answer to your question lies in understanding this. The feel has nothing to do with the answer to your question since they are asking you to correctly beam, or rebeam the rhythm, and not play it...
This is how 6/8 is counted- 8th notes get the counts, which are 1,2,3,4,5,6. The "in-between" 16th notes- the "e" and "a" notes in 4/4- now get "and" counts, and so on. (Adding to the confusion of 6/8, quarters, eighths, 16, etc. in appearance are still called the same thing, but their count values change.)

If the question's intent is to simply alter the given notes as presented in order to make them not fall short or run over the value of a measure of 6/8, I think the first measure in the example question is correct. I see it like this (forgive the sloppy electronic writing in the image):

Inkedexam question_LI.jpg

But then, there's the groupings issue. I'm not sure what's considered "correct" here. The first measure, although having the proper total number of note values to fill up a 6/8 measure, might not be grouped according to what's commonly accepted as a correct grouping, i.e. making them look like 4/4 triplets without the 3's, for instance. If the intent is to leave the notes where they are and only alter beaming, then beaming the 3rd note to the prior two, then removing the 16th beam from the fourth and fifth notes would make a continuous string of 8 notes, in two groupings, counted 1,2,3,4,5,6. Then to make the 2nd measure correct- if, in 6/8, a half note = 3 counts, same as a dotted quarter (I'm not sure about that either)- the pair of 16ths would need a beam removed, making them 8th notes, and then the flag could be removed from the last note and beamed to the two prior- 3 notes with a single beam, counted 4,5,6.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
It's really not a difficult problem-- the books I mentioned both use correct standards for notating rhythm in 6/8. Or get any basic theory book. 6/8 = 2. Make it look like 3/8+3/8 and you're done.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
Yes- the question as stated says to correct the groupings and beamings (the bars that connect note stems; and I'm left to assume that includes flags also).


This is how the music is felt; to expand on that, 12/8 is used to avoid writing in 4/4 and having to put little 3's everywhere. That said:


This is how 6/8 is counted- 8th notes get the counts, which are 1,2,3,4,5,6. The "in-between" 16th notes- the "e" and "a" notes in 4/4- now get "and" counts, and so on. (Adding to the confusion of 6/8, quarters, eighths, 16, etc. in appearance are still called the same thing, but their count values change.)

If the question's intent is to simply alter the given notes as presented in order to make them not fall short or run over the value of a measure of 6/8, I think the first measure in the example question is correct. I see it like this (forgive the sloppy electronic writing in the image):

View attachment 90189

But then, there's the groupings issue. I'm not sure what's considered "correct" here. The first measure, although having the proper total number of note values to fill up a 6/8 measure, might not be grouped according to what's commonly accepted as a correct grouping, i.e. making them look like 4/4 triplets without the 3's, for instance. If the intent is to leave the notes where they are and only alter beaming, then beaming the 3rd note to the prior two, then removing the 16th beam from the fourth and fifth notes would make a continuous string of 8 notes, in two groupings, counted 1,2,3,4,5,6. Then to make the 2nd measure correct- if, in 6/8, a half note = 3 counts, same as a dotted quarter (I'm not sure about that either)- the pair of 16ths would need a beam removed, making them 8th notes, and then the flag could be removed from the last note and beamed to the two prior- 3 notes with a single beam, counted 4,5,6.
I agree as well...in fact, I think the original problem/question is sort of weird since - at least to me - neither rhythm needs to be corrected or changed.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
I agree as well...in fact, I think the original problem/question is sort of weird since - at least to me - neither rhythm needs to be corrected or changed.
Oh, the 2nd measure definitely doesn't have enough note value to fill the 6/8 measure. The first does, but groupings are weird; if it's wrong, it's according to a standard that the OP didn't state.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
Think of it is a half note still has a value = 2 quarters = 4 eighths so the 2nd measure is also correct as far as total note value.
No, that leaves it even more short of filling the required note values. The half cannot equal two "normal" quarters, because the actual 6/8 quarter does that. (See my notation in the prior measure. Also, in 6/8, a dotted quarter fills 3 counts.) I don't think it goes as far as filling the space of two 6/8 quarters- four counts. I've never seen a whole half (mistyped there) note used in 6/8- nothing larger than a dotted quarter, except for a whole note/rest, which disregards the convention of all the other notes' values and just occupies the entire measure, just as it does in 4/4.
 
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Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
No, that leaves it even more short of filling the required note values. The half cannot equal two "normal" quarters, because the actual 6/8 quarter does that. (See my notation in the prior measure. Also, in 6/8, a dotted quarter fills 3 counts.) I don't think it goes as far as filling the space of two 6/8 quarters- four counts. I've never seen a whole note used in 6/8- nothing larger than a dotted quarter, except for a whole note/rest, which disregards the convention of all the other notes' values and just occupies the entire measure, just as it does in 4/4.
A whole note would fill more than an entire measure of 6/8. A dotted half note is the way to fill a whole measure with one note.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
Oh, the 2nd measure definitely doesn't have enough note value to fill the 6/8 measure. The first does, but groupings are weird; if it's wrong, it's according to a standard that the OP didn't state.
Sorry to be a jerk again, but the second measure does have enough notes. The usual way to write it would be a dotted quarter tied over to an 8th note, followed by the two sixteenths and the 8th note barred together at the top with each other.
 

Alex Sanguinetti

Silver Member
But then, there's the groupings issue. I'm not sure what's considered "correct" here.
So, if you are "not sure" why are you answering and so long? Hahahahaha...
I agree as well...in fact, I think the original problem/question is sort of weird since - at least to me - neither rhythm needs to be corrected or changed.
I can play with any beaming, the notes alone, or whatever, but it is incorrect beaming (in a traditional context), this is not even for college level, that¨s why they ask you for getting there (for entering there), hahaha. It´s related also so you know how to write for other instruments other than drums................
 
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