INSTAGRAM / YOUTUBE DRUMMING CULTURE: LOVE IT? HATE IT? WHY?

cbphoto

Gold Member
I never understood the whole "drumming has to fit the music" thing that people often say when justifying simple drumming.
When I hear that I bring up Come Together and ask how it should’ve been done.
 

toddmc

Gold Member
I agree with those being fightin' words to most, but me, I don't find him or any other progressive drummer's style hard to play, if anything you just have to memorize a lot of different parts (and that would be the difficult part not the playing but the memorization) but I find that style boring... Rush or any progressive bands are to me more about showing chops than actually having a good groove. I do like some songs from them but I would not buy an album or go to a concert (and now that he is dead you can't anyway). I feel the same about Dream Theater, Tool... Highly overrated drummers not particularly hard to play but just a bunch of memorization.
I'm not offended in the slightest that you don't idolise Peart, Portnoy, etc. They're not your taste and that's totally fine.

I also totally understand (even agree with to a point) that their playing style can be too flashy and not groove like other players, but to call their skillset "just a bunch of memorisation" (as if memorisation and execution are the same thing) is reductive to say the least.
 

Sebenza

Member
When I hear that I bring up Come Together and ask how it should’ve been done.
It's just fine the way Ringo played it. I admire this guy's drumming as much as I admire this guy's....just because you personally don't like one style of music does not make it bad.

That's why doggyd69b's comments on certain players being overrated, smell like ignorance (possibly youth?) to me....you don't like a certain type of player or style of music? Fine, then say you don't like them, but don't start devalueing them on a drumming forum. That's just disrespectful. And if you top that off with "I'm right more often than not"...it just seems like an 18 year old telling people on how the world should turn when he hasn't even seen 10% of it...
 

Seafroggys

Silver Member
To further elaborate on my previous point.......busy, complex drumming is par for the course for most progressive music. Sure there are outliers, but generally people expect there to be "more notes" in the music....that's typical for a prog fan.

So saying "I don't like Peart or Carey because they don't groove and play too many notes" is the wrong perspective to have. To say you don't like them as drummers because they do that is wrong......I think the right way to look at it, is that you just don't like progressive music. *AND THAT'S OKAY!* But at least approach it from the right angle. They are playing perfect for their music, because they are part of the music, and if you don't like that music, fine, but don't say they're overrated or poor players or whatever synonym you wish to use in that regard.

It's akin to saying "Classical music would be better if there were no violins." I mean, sure, there are *some* orchestral and pre 20th century European works that don't have strings, but by and large having string sections and violins and such is par for the course, and if you don't like violins, maybe classical music isn't the choice for you, rather than saying violin players suck. Same idea.
 
I don't like reading/watching stuff on my phone, so IG doesn't do anything for me. (And I like having more control over speed and being able to fast forward or go back on clips.) But I love YouTube for the drumming. Every week, it seems, more useful drum info is uploaded than I had access to in my small town the entire time I was learning to play. Sometimes it bums me out a bit that I wasn't able to access these pearls until long after my time of being in a band was over. But mainly I just absolutely love it now.

Whenever I run across some of the cover artists you guys have mentioned, I skip past them, so their existence doesn't bother me at all; if others like their stuff, good for everyone.

I find new drummers I dig—Eric Proctor, for instance, who seems to have come out of nowhere in the past few months and has such tasty chops and doles his vids out in pleasantly bite-sized chunks—and sometimes stop watching ones I previously loved as their stuff goes off in a direction I no longer enjoy. There are drummers out there who break down classic grooves and fills and solos in ways I could never do. There are drummers out there who suggest new ways of using six-stroke rolls to create new grooves and fills in ways that would never occur to me. I love this stuff. I don't watch anything I don't want, and there's so much great content I do want. It's a goldmine.
 

someguy01

Well-known member
To further elaborate on my previous point.......busy, complex drumming is par for the course for most progressive music. Sure there are outliers, but generally people expect there to be "more notes" in the music....that's typical for a prog fan.
Thank you. I amend my statement to, I'm not a fan of prog rock. Never got into any of it, but that being said, I love watching Portnoy with the hello kitty set. Gold.
 
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doggyd69b

Well-known member
You discovered some hidden truths 99% of the world hasn't? Start your own religion, buddy, you're guaranteed success with that attitude
I'm not religious at all so that would not work... you have different experiences than me so you believe what you think it's right for you. If we were all the same this would be a pretty boring place. And it's because of my attitude that I have been fairly successful....
 

doggyd69b

Well-known member
I never understood the whole "drumming has to fit the music" thing that people often say when justifying simple drumming.

My question to that is "Isn't drumming the music in of itself?" Why do drummers oftentimes talk about drums as being separate, or even "underneath", the rest of the music?
I don't consider drums as separate but they do have to work as part of the music otherwise they are against it and it would normally would not work but sometimes it does. Underneath...not sure if I can think of an example of that. And just because someone can master a technique, it doesn't mean that what they play will necessarily be musical (blast beats come to mind). And drumming that fits the music doesn't have to be simple. Example Mgla. Exercises in futility. The cymbal work combined with the continuous double bass and the snare accents are not simple drumming but also not overplaying and they serve the music perfectly.
 

doggyd69b

Well-known member
I'm not offended in the slightest that you don't idolise Peart, Portnoy, etc. They're not your taste and that's totally fine.

I also totally understand (even agree with to a point) that their playing style can be too flashy and not groove like other players, but to call their skillset "just a bunch of memorisation" (as if memorisation and execution are the same thing) is reductive to say the least.
Its just my opinion and just because I could sit there and memorize all those parts and play them correctly doesn't mean I would. We all learn differently and to me if I can learn it I can usually execute it with some very fast double bass parts as the exceptions. I also did say that I like some of the songs . But I guess if one must focus only on the negative (to you) part of my comment...then I can't help you.
 

toddmc

Gold Member
Its just my opinion and just because I could sit there and memorize all those parts and play them correctly doesn't mean I would. We all learn differently and to me if I can learn it I can usually execute it with some very fast double bass parts as the exceptions. I also did say that I like some of the songs . But I guess if one must focus only on the negative (to you) part of my comment...then I can't help you.
No negativity from me buddy- you're the one claiming it's easy to play like Peart and Portnoy, not me (I'm not as amazing as you).
 

doggyd69b

Well-known member
No negativity from me buddy- you're the one claiming it's easy to play like Peart and Portnoy, not me (I'm not as amazing as you).
Ok you need to read the rest of the thread, I said that I could spend the time memorizing all those parts and then play them correctly. I also said that (memorizing all the parts) would be the hard part for me. But say for example i put the song in a daw, and loop 15 second sections, I practice each part until I get it perfect then move on to the next part until I finish the whole song, there is no reason why I would not be able to play that entire song perfectly in a short time. That is exactly what some youtube drummers do. They go a step further....they edit the mistakes out of the videos, I wouldn't do that and I would actually play the song in one take. No need to be amazing to be able to do that which is why you can only really judge a youtube drummer's talent when he/she is playing material that they wrote themselves.
 

toddmc

Gold Member
Ok you need to read the rest of the thread, I said that I could spend the time memorizing all those parts and then play them correctly. I also said that (memorizing all the parts) would be the hard part for me. But say for example i put the song in a daw, and loop 15 second sections, I practice each part until I get it perfect then move on to the next part until I finish the whole song, there is no reason why I would not be able to play that entire song perfectly in a short time. That is exactly what some youtube drummers do. They go a step further....they edit the mistakes out of the videos, I wouldn't do that and I would actually play the song in one take. No need to be amazing to be able to do that which is why you can only really judge a youtube drummer's talent when he/she is playing material that they wrote themselves.
Well, consider me now a bit more educated (video editing definitley not my expert subject).

I used to do some terrible drum covers in one take (and one camera angle)- clearly I should have employed this method! ?
 

doggyd69b

Well-known member
Well, consider me now a bit more educated (video editing definitley not my expert subject).

I used to do some terrible drum covers in one take (and one camera angle)- clearly I should have employed this method! ?
I personally have not used this method as it kills the fun part of playing for me.
 

Seafroggys

Silver Member
I don't consider drums as separate but they do have to work as part of the music otherwise they are against it and it would normally would not work but sometimes it does. Underneath...not sure if I can think of an example of that. And just because someone can master a technique, it doesn't mean that what they play will necessarily be musical (blast beats come to mind). And drumming that fits the music doesn't have to be simple. Example Mgla. Exercises in futility. The cymbal work combined with the continuous double bass and the snare accents are not simple drumming but also not overplaying and they serve the music perfectly.

But what defines if something is musical? You?

Blast Beats are musical for the style of music they are played in. You may not like blast beats, maybe you don't find personal musical fulfilment in them, maybe you don't listen to metal.....but to say they aren't musical? They *ARE* musical in the genres you find them in.
 
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I think when people say oh Peart sucks (for example)....I think what they really mean is Pearts style doesn't resonate with them.

Or the genre doesn't resonate with them like Seafroggys pointed out. Which is fine.

If Peart threw dog poop on the guys house for no reason at all, OK then Neil would suck ha ha.

Peart doesn't suck, he just didn't inspire the commenter. Peart and suck don't belong in the same sentence, you'll forgive me here. Peart has given the culture iconic lyrics just like John Lennon did. Focusing on the negative....a person could focus on positive too, so why the negs? It says more about the commenter than the target.
 
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iCe

Senior Member
I think that people all too often state 'that drummer sucks' or 'that band sucks'. No it doesn't; it just doesn't tickle your fancy.
Me and a friend of mine have been to festivals and watched bands that were not our preferred musical style, but we were sometimes blown away by how good it sounded and how good the musicians were. Doesn't mean that those bands/artists sucked, but i think if you look past that you see/hear a lot more going on. I mean... i play with a guitar player and we play instrumental music on a Friday afternoon once every 2 weeks. Sometimes a drummer is in a practice room near us playing jazz while i'm pounding away double bass beats. 2 totally different worlds, but we respect each others playing. I'll never play a swing like him and he'll probably have a very hard time playing a few of our songs haha.

Anyway, back to topic... i don't have Instagram, but i do see YouTube being flooded with people drumming to songs. Especially young kids showing off on 'look how good i am playing this song'. Still a lot of practice to do, but didn't we all go through that phase...? Only thing is that when i just stared out (around 2000) there wasn't even something like Facebook or YouTube to share stuff on. Or at least it wasn't embedded into our society like it is now. Maybe i'm getting old and not getting the new/younger generation(s), but i don't feel like sharing everything online anymore (well except maybe here, but here we can have a polite conversation).
I had some drum vids online a few years back, but deleted them all because there was always someone who posted 'BASS DRUM WRONG' or 'set sounds like crap mate' and made me think 'well... i don't care anymore what people think' and deleted everything. Hmmm starting to rant here hahaha

Ok last thing... what i really don't get is reaction videos and how much they're watched by people. I just don't get watching some what another YouTube video and giving they're opinion/reaction about it.

I do love YouTube for having a platform where i can look up explanations from drummers about their drumparts (like Drumeo) or the videos of Drummerworld. Huge van of gear tours as well. But it's getting a bit too much and overflooded with sub-par content.
 

doggyd69b

Well-known member
But what defines if something is musical? You?

Blast Beats are musical for the style of music they are played in. You may not like blast beats, maybe you don't find personal musical fulfilment in them, maybe you don't listen to metal.....but to say they aren't musical? They *ARE* musical in the genres you find them in.
I mostly listen to metal and I still think blast beats are not musical. that trend started with Slayer modifying (speeding up a polka beat) then it degenerated in faster faster faster until it got to what bands play today. I'll admit there is a technique to them and some drummers actually make them sound good (David Diepold, George Kollias) but have you ever played blast beats outside of a studio? like for rehearsal? it sounds awful. I love drums and drumming but when it comes to blast beats....
 

doggyd69b

Well-known member
I think when people say oh Peart sucks (for example)....I think what they really mean is Pearts style doesn't resonate with them.

Or the genre doesn't resonate with them like Seafroggys pointed out. Which is fine.

If Peart threw dog poop on the guys house for no reason at all, OK then Neil would suck ha ha.

Peart doesn't suck, he just didn't inspire the commenter. Peart and suck don't belong in the same sentence, you'll forgive me here. Peart has given the culture iconic lyrics just like John Lennon did. Focusing on the negative....a person could focus on positive too, so why the negs? It says more about the commenter than the target.
Again I never said anyone sucked, I said they were overrated.. calling me ignorant for that is just not being able to accept that people have different tastes.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Fair enough.

I'll agree to admitting that I embellished your words, my bad, if you'll agree that I never personally called anyone ignorant.
 
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