I'm mostly pointing the finger at Drumeo on this...I see it on my Facebook feed all the time "only 1out of 10 drummers can play this 11/8 groove!" and "you've been playing this groove all wrong!" this is partial hyperbole, but It's as if they're saying "if you can't do this, you aren't a real drummer". I'm what you'd call a meat & potatoes drummer. Can't solo to save my ass, but when the song starts I'm right there, and I get few complaints from my fellow musicians. I guess it's the old fart in me, I've always studied what guys like Hal Blaine, Benny Benjamin, Jeff Porcaro, & Jim Gordon were doing. But I just feel like some of these "Drum shaming" videos are discouraging & frustrating players.
Drum shaming..
- Thread starter Vandalay
- Start date
BonsaiMagpie
Junior Member
Drumeo is a very positive resource, but you're right. Stupid meme posts designed to looks like terrible adverts for terrible products is dumb and frustrating. Especially when the actual content is so good.
toddbishop
Platinum Member
Their goal is strictly to seize attention and get views, and preying on insecurity is one of the ways they do that. That's probably in a manual for youtubers somewhere. The more you can be off the internet, and in the real world playing music with humans, the less any of that crap means.
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
back when I started playing in the 80's, this was not considered "shaming", but was considered constructive criticism, or just observations...and people handled it a lot better. I read no shaming in either one of those statements. The 11/8 statement is a fact. The other statement is and opinion, but contains nothing that I would see as shaming. In fact, it would motivate me to think:" can I do that? Maybe I need to work on that to become a better drummer"
I like it when people tell me I am doing something wrong. It makes me take a second look at things. Even when I know I am doing it correct, I smile and nod, go home, and recheck it.
Shaming has become an excuse, I think, for some people to not "deal with reality". I see this A TON with my students.
I like it when people tell me I am doing something wrong. It makes me take a second look at things. Even when I know I am doing it correct, I smile and nod, go home, and recheck it.
Shaming has become an excuse, I think, for some people to not "deal with reality". I see this A TON with my students.
Cmdr. Ross
Platinum Member
Jared Faulk will usually have a good video on these topics, but for the most part, that studio is pretty legit. I too have seen a few other than nice YouTubers going the shaming route trying to get non-confident drummers on the hook to do better by their snake oil "lessons".
Don't fall for it.
Meat and potatoes is really the core of our jobs & anything else is fluff and showmanship. Necessary at times, but ultimately doesn't serve the song.
Keep doing what you're doing & know you're doing the right thing.
Don't fall for it.
Meat and potatoes is really the core of our jobs & anything else is fluff and showmanship. Necessary at times, but ultimately doesn't serve the song.
Keep doing what you're doing & know you're doing the right thing.
PorkPieGuy
Platinum Member
Yup. It's all click bait.
I've gotten to the point where I don't watch too many drumming videos. I mean, I listen to music, but I never watch drum lessons anymore because I simply don't have the time to practice. I work/drive 11 hours M-F. I help my kids with homework 5 nights a week, I'm pretty active in my church, and I also have band practice(s) in addition to gigs on the weekends. I won't apologize because I've not taken the time to learn a rippin' 11/8 groove. If other people want to learn them, that's fantastic. Go do it.
I think it was Mike Johnston who said something like, "Only drummers get excited about learning things that could get them fired from a gig."
And other drummers might also be motivated.
But it's also helpful to let drummers know that they must be more rounded as players and musicians, and that they might never get to play an 11/8 groove in real-life apart from portions of "Whipping Post" (which is not difficult.)
But I'm fine with drummers who just want to show-off their chops and odd-time grooves... they keep me working!
Bermuda
Andy
Honorary Member
Truth!
I see little wrong with providing a carrot, or grabbing a headline, in the current climate where easily digestible slogans seem to be the only messages that cut through. It's the climate I have issue with, not those seeking, in good faith, to get their message across. As for shaming, I don't think the statement examples offered really stray into that. Shaming is often used as a bit of a title crutch to mask personal insecurities. For sure, if a tagline said something like "if you cant't do xxxxx, then you're worthless", I'd have an issue with that, but to offer that a higher level of facility is available for those who see value in it, I think is just fine.
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
always playing "Devils Advocate":
...what if the song calls for tricky. fast, show-offy kind of beats?
There is more than just one "money beat"...
philrudd
Senior Member
I've seen the same ads for the same videos, but I never considered it shaming, or even click bait. I figured it just wasn't marketed to me, specifically; there are so many kinds of drumming, drummers and drum styles, I assume they're targeting someone else - someone who might find the 11/8 groove useful, or might give a shit that they're not playing a specific groove 'correctly' (whatever that means).
Having said that, they do tend to make me curious, and I'll be damned if I haven't learned a few things when I investigated. I may not use all the techniques or theories involved when I play with bands, but I figure it can't hurt to see if I can figure it out on my own.
Having said that, they do tend to make me curious, and I'll be damned if I haven't learned a few things when I investigated. I may not use all the techniques or theories involved when I play with bands, but I figure it can't hurt to see if I can figure it out on my own.
Bo Eder
Platinum Member
Actually, doing the “Pat Boone-Debbie Boone” thing is really hard. Playing solid time is something a lot of youtubers don’t do. But it’s where your income comes from.
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
this is pretty much what I was going to say as well...my own "filter" will let me know whether or not I need to invest time. and mental energy into any video. There has never been a video that I watched in full that did not teach me something...and the videos that I don't want to watch get turned off right away.
I generally don't click on stuff that says: "house beat" or "hip hop jam" or whatever because it is not what I am interested in. When I am actively searching those things, I do click on it...sometimes that leads me down the Youtube rabbbit hole, and I learn something new, or ignore a ton of stuff
I can say that I have never ever been offended by someone saying that I am not a good drummer because of this or that...again, my personal filter helps me sift that out. It often times motivates me, but never leaves me feeling butt hurt.
Hell, my students rag on my "Old Man Hands" all the time at school, and then I challenge them to a play off of sorts - which forces me to fix my Old Man Hands, and forces them to also put up or shut up.
GetAgrippa
Diamond Member
There is useful criticisms and then bullying mean spirited criticisms, and some just inane I'm not sure the purpose. If people are just going to be insulting that isn't helpful at all but those who make positive suggestions/criticisms well I think about those a lot. Nothing wrong with accepting personal weakness and limitations and nothing wrong trying to strengthen those weaknesses. Shaming was my Dad's strategy of child raising, same for athletic coaches, some teachers. Dang I see a pattern but no worries I have no shame LOL.
There aren't a lot of songs like that in set lists for the typical audience most bands play for. Very few intricate or show-offy drum beats make it into mainstream music. Let's see, there's "50 Ways..." and... ummm… that's honestly all I can think of off the top of my head. I may have been asked to play that once in 45+ years of playing in bands. It might have been at a jam.
True, working pros know both money beats!
Bermuda
KEEF
Senior Member
You have to allow yourself to be 'shamed' - you can choose whether other peoples opinion of your ability to do 'whatever' bothers you.
I'm not ashamed I can't play 11/8 (For example)
I don't feel like a lesser drummer cos I can't play 11/8
I've no desire to play 11/8 - I'm not impressed by it, I'm not motivated to learn to play it by watching others who can play it.
But...... I have absolutely nothing against those who can,do,or are.
To each their own....
I don't actually know any musicians that are of a sufficient level at their instrument to understand 11/8 anyway, if I showed up playing those kind of grooves my bandmates would politely ask WTF was that!
I'm not ashamed I can't play 11/8 (For example)
I don't feel like a lesser drummer cos I can't play 11/8
I've no desire to play 11/8 - I'm not impressed by it, I'm not motivated to learn to play it by watching others who can play it.
But...... I have absolutely nothing against those who can,do,or are.
To each their own....
I don't actually know any musicians that are of a sufficient level at their instrument to understand 11/8 anyway, if I showed up playing those kind of grooves my bandmates would politely ask WTF was that!
WhoIsTony?
Member
Drumeo does mostly positive things for the community ... but I despise how they embrace and promote the "lick" and "chop" culture.
it's terrible for music ... absolutely terrible
it's terrible for music ... absolutely terrible
GetAgrippa
Diamond Member
Devo's blockhead has some 11/8 in there don't it?? So I bet Bo can do it-GOBO!! LOL. I remember an interview of Greg Allman talking about Whipping post which is in 11/4 (isn't it??) and he was apparently clueless of the time signature. I feel his pain LOL.
