The conundrum of the 8" rack tom

sublevels

sublevels

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For a long time, I've been playing a piecemeal kit. Recently, I finally upgraded everything except my floor tom (and that will be replaced soon enough) to Yamaha Stage Customs. With my prior kit, though, I'd added an 8" rack tom to my 10" and 12". I'd admired the triple rack tom setup for a while (Copeland was a big reason for that) and the 8" 10" 12" combination particularly intrigued me. Some of my heroes like Time Alexander played 8" 10" 12" and I noticed these days it seems to be pretty standard for a lot of gospel chops dudes (who make good use of them in their lightspeed fills.) Danny Carey is still, apparently, using an 8" as well.

When I upgraded to the Yamahas this month, I didn't bother to buy an 8". I realized I was fine with 10" and 12". I used the three rack tom setup for a while and it was a lot of fun to play but, ultimately, the 8" just seemed like an indulgence. I didn't play it much outside of fills or as an accent with a rimshot. I had to tune it very high and it didn't really work that well as part of a group with the others. It was more like a mini timbale or octoban. One of the only really top notch players I've heard talk about the use of the 8" specifically is Weckl, who had this to say in a 2013 interview with Drumhead Magazine:

"I get the concept of the bigger drums [13-16] but by the same token they take up more sound space. The problem with a big drum generally is if you tune it low, it rings a lot unless you tune it really low, and then it's so dead that there's nothing there."

"My whole thing was to go smaller with the toms and tune really low, which gave them a nice 'pop' and their own space." He began by adding a 10" tom to the gold sparkle Gretsch 22, 12, 13, 16 kit he had brought with him to school from St. Louis. This was right after his first sighting in 1979 of Gadd and his now-famous 10, 12 rack tom/suspended floor tom configuration that became the template for many working drummers for decades thereafter.

After seeing that, Weckl did a monkey-see-monkey-do but soon decided he also wanted to add an 8" tom. However, he wanted the 8 to have a deep shell because "I figured, smaller diameter with a deeper shell would produce some kind of other sound. This was long before power shells were ever thought of, so I had this drum kit made for me at Professional Percussion. All deep shells: 20x16, 8x9 and 10x10 and the floors were square, I think. That was a killing maple kit. I still have that somewhere, too. That was the beginning of the whole sound thing."

Although that gave him the sound he was looking for when mic'ed up for electric music, two problems eventually cropped up: "The first problem came up as I started to get into more acoustic situations. Those small drums were all tuned and set up for mics, but without microphones they disappeared because they couldn't compete acoustically. Plus there was a tonal thing, too. When I did straight-ahead gigs, the 8 didn't work at all, so I started switching to the 10 for the straight-ahead stuff. Now I'm just back to 10, 12, 14 and actually this week with [Mike] Stern I'm playing a 16 on my left just for fun, to do something different."
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So, what's the consensus here on the 8"? A useful addition? A needless luxury? All situation dependent?
 
Add a 13, I did and it felt like coming home to the 80’s in a good way
22,12,13,14,16,10 on the left side off the hihat
 
The 8" tom......the little tank that could.

A little fighter that can get forgotten.

I had one on my Premier Genista, was useless live.

Studio?......it had its uses.

The player that could use it well and make it important was Chester Thompson.
 
If I want several tom voices, then the smaller the drums, the wider the range between them. The bigger the drums, the more they all start to sound the same. Best variety of pitch comes from the upper toms, to these old ears anyway.

I’m amused how hungry drummers are to amass an arsenal of snare drums, yet, the meager 8 inch tom somehow remains an unaccountably controversial and contestable piece.
 
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I've never had an 8" tom, but I have an 10" tom on my white DW kit, and I rarely used it. When I did, the guys said it sounded like a gunshot, because when I'd play a fill, I'd usually hit it once, then go to the 12" tom and so forth. It had its uses, but ultimately, I stopped using it, preferring one rack tom. I just think an 8" is too small for me.
 
DrummerJustLikeDad said:
If I want several tom voices, them the smaller the drums, the wider the range they cover. The bigger the drums, the more they all start to sound the same. Best variety of pitch comes from the upper toms, to these old ears anyway.

I’m amused how hungry drummers are to amass an arsenal of snare drums, yet, the meager 8 inch tom somehow remains an unaccountably controversial and contestable piece.
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I agree to an extent. Drums too similar in size become homogeneous and I did get a great pitch range with the 8". Problem was it was just too high pitched to be useful most of the time for the reasons I listed.

And yes, the snare drum and cymbal lust is ridiculous. In the 22 years I've been playing, I've never owned more than one snare. Maybe I'll get a second one someday, but that'll be it.
 
sublevels said:
I agree to an extent. Drums too similar in size become homogeneous and I did get a great pitch range with the 8". Problem was it was just too high pitched to be useful most of the time for the reasons I listed.

And yes, the snare drum and cymbal lust is ridiculous. In the 22 years I've been playing, I've never owned more than one snare. Maybe I'll get a second one someday, but that'll be it.
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You sound like a more extreme version of me ;).

I would love an 8 if I played in ELP, Tool or Rush. I also sometimes consider the possibilities of a big scramble of drums arranged randomly, and the idea of an 8 paired next to an 18 makes me laugh. But then I start to think about the schlep and my setup being screwy, and I think I’m fine with a Ringo set.
 
I can just hear it now and picture it now........

A beautiful 8" Pearl Masters or Tama Artstar tom with brand new heads and striking those babies........

Doishhhh..........ninggggggggggggg (infinity).

It's hard to put words to tom sounds without coming across as a tool.
 
No where in this discussion did anyone wonder what music was being played and did it call for that voice? You and the gear serve the music. Of course, if you’re just playing for yourself in a bedroom, then I guess we can’t discuss whether or not the 8” is appropriate. Just say it is because you’re not in a situation where the music is dictating what you need. Once you start playing in bands a lot, you end up in Charlie Watts-ville.

I recall going to sub for a friend at a bar and he said his drums were already there and I get there and he has six toms! Patrons noticed that as the night went on, the kit was getting smaller (I was taking away drums I didn’t need). By the end of the night I think it was a 3-piece and I left it that way when I went home.
 
SYMBOLIC DEATH said:
Then you'd love the old Tama Starclassic ad with Paul Bostaph and his Slayer kit that had an 8" tom above a 22" gong bass drum both of which were to the left of his hi hats.
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It does sound a bit ludicrous when you say it like that- at least both extremes were covered in one place?? 😄

s-l1600.jpg
 
I love drums of all sizes.
I have a 6” and 2 - 8”s the cut they provide at the start of a fill or assembly of combos.
JimmyM said:
You sound like a more extreme version of me ;).

I would love an 8 if I played in ELP, Tool or Rush. I also sometimes consider the possibilities of a big scramble of drums arranged randomly, and the idea of an 8 paired next to an 18 makes me laugh. But then I start to think about the schlep and my setup being screwy, and I think I’m fine with a Ringo set.
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Here is my Vista with the 6” and 8” over the 16” and 18” floors.
1118F1FD-2483-4FD7-80D6-B170BE11401D.jpeg

Here is Peter Criss with the 6” and 8” over his 16” and 18” floors.
9b4db9b589b8509e81bbff0d0229335aa77fd243.gifv


Bo Eder said:
No where in this discussion did anyone wonder what music was being played and did it call for that voice? You and the gear serve the music. Of course, if you’re just playing for yourself in a bedroom, then I guess we can’t discuss whether or not the 8” is appropriate. Just say it is because you’re not in a situation where the music is dictating what you need. Once you start playing in bands a lot, you end up in Charlie Watts-ville.

I recall going to sub for a friend at a bar and he said his drums were already there and I get there and he has six toms! Patrons noticed that as the night went on, the kit was getting smaller (I was taking away drums I didn’t need). By the end of the night I think it was a 3-piece and I left it that way when I went home.
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Yes - I understand utility and lean gear.
I also don’t need to gig for whatever it’s worth…

But a 3 piece with a 12” 13” 14” rack is not going to cover the voice increments from an 8”-10” I don’t care what you think your ears tell you. Live or not.
 
Ransan said:
I love drums of all sizes.
I have a 6” and 2 - 8”s the cut they provide at the start of a fill or assembly of combos.

Here is my Vista with the 6” and 8” over the 16” and 18” floors.
View attachment 131713

Here is Peter Criss with the 6” and 8” over his 16” and 18” floors.
9b4db9b589b8509e81bbff0d0229335aa77fd243.gifv



Yes - I understand utility and lean gear.
I also don’t need to gig for whatever it’s worth…

But a 3 piece with a 12” 13” 14” rack is not going to cover the voice increments from an 8”-10” I don’t care what you think your ears tell you. Live or not.
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Wow, you and Pete rock it!
 
sublevels said:
So, what's the consensus here on the 8"? A useful addition? A needless luxury? All situation dependent?
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Of the three, I'll go with "All situation dependent".

Stage Customs are fairly "won't break the bank" adds. Mostly, I'm a 1 up, 2 down guy ...... but it's nice, once in a while to sit behind a big kit. With my Yamaha SC (1st gen. all birch) ..... I've got 8, 10, 12, 13 inch rack toms ...... 14 and 16 inch floors.
 
I've been using an 8" tom for ages. All personal preference. I like them for the cut they have. On Tool records (at least on Lateralus and 10000 Days) that tom together with the 10" really cut like a knife through butter. I did play with 8 and 10" toms as my main toms for a few months just to try out. Pro was really that those don't take up a lot of space. Downside is lacking (obviously) low end. Got my 12" back after that, but still like the idea.

Personal preference are bigger toms, but i like the cut an 8" gives for those longer fills (ala Neil Peart)
 
When I got my 13/16/24 I loved the kit but missed a high voice-so bought a 10 in tom. I'd love to have an 8 in tom just to noodle and play around with for latin music. Tiny toms tuned timbale high really cut and sound great with Latin music.
In fact an all tiny instrument band sounds pretty awesome playing from bluegrass to jazz. I'd love to play this tiny kit-wonder what it is?
 
8" toms are really short, they sonically don't fall very far from the use we can get from percussions, octobans, bongoes, timbales,...
I think depth matters a lot. I have attended a concert of Morglbl (http://morglblmusic.com/) ; the drummer was really good but he played a Hyperdrive drum kit, the short 10" was really no use even miked up, melted with guitars and bass it just was a uninteresting "pac" sound. Toms need to have body and depth, except if you need a kind of high and short sound like percussion.
I love the configuration 10 12 13 16, kind of old fashion but it covers the need.
8 10 12 16 is fun to play, but appart from soloing I wouldn't play the 8" much : if unmicked, it doesn't carry, you feel a real difference (to my experience) in term of projection between a 8x7 and a 10x8/9
 
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