The conundrum of the 8" rack tom

Yeah I agree Larry unmiced it cuts but doesn’t project. You have to be close in audience to hear it. Makes sense longer wavelengths travel farther so shorter don’t travel as far (I forgot to complete my thought lol) Tater head strikes again.
 
Yea Art it cuts...but it dies so quick that in my mind it's a waste of a tom. A 12" tuned where I had the 10" tuned to...sounds so much better than the 10. It rings and the note lasts like the other drums

Miced, I'd still go with a 12 as the high tom. It sounds more interesting to my ear than a 10
 
My 13 in Pearl Decade surprisingly has a huge tuning range- doesn’t sound choked real high or flappy real low-the discovery made me regret buying the extra matching 10 in tom. I like just two and the 13/16 with 24 kick was perfect as is-big dummy me I jumped the gun. Live and learn. I drag the 10 in out and stick it ala Purdie to right of 13 just because I have it shhhhshhh
 
I have a 9" deep x 8" Ludwig maple concert tom..
I like the 8" as a Concert tom w/no bottom head.
Adding just that---can transform a normal set ... to a near/sounding Concert tom set.. w/Just the addition of just that one drum.
acts like a falsie.
 
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Probably thick shells with rounded bearing edges (30 degree-like) ancient humans invented was best- like the first generation MrCoffee. Later versions ruined it ROFL
 
Before, I had a bongo set (6" and 8") on a stand left to the hihat with a 10" under it; then I had a 12 rack with 14/16 floor toms. The bongos were alot of fun and gave alot of drum sound source and projected well but still felt like a 4 pc drumset. Coincidently, when Weckl ditched the 8", I think he added bongos with a Remo dombek on his left and made all sorts of fun grooves with that setup. I think its a great setup, just not made for Rush fills.
 
"I get the concept of the bigger drums [13-16] but by the same token they take up more sound space. The problem with a big drum generally is if you tune it low, it rings a lot unless you tune it really low, and then it's so dead that there's nothing there." -Weckl

I have big toms and a big kick. Believe me when I say that even though I tune pretty low, there's definitely "something there." Mic it up and run it through some subs and they sound like thunder. While that's all cool with me, I could see how that sound would just muddy things up with some bands, especially if other band members outside of the bass player are playing in those same frequencies (e.g. piano player, keys players who play pad-based patches in lower registers, baritone guitars, etc.).

So, what's the consensus here on the 8"? A useful addition? A needless luxury? All situation dependent?

As Bo said (he beat me to it!), if an 8" tom is what the music requires, then by all means get one. If it doesn't, then don't.

Would I ever buy one? Probably not. I already have an 8" Tama Rockstar 8" tom, and I enjoyed at the time, but it doesn't have any place for me anymore. If I wanted to buy something like that, I'd be more likely just to buy a single roto tom or one of those DW piccolo toms. Used, you can get one for less than $100, and you can mount them just about anywhere. They are shallow, so you could even overlap them a little over a drum, cymbal, etc.
 
Will you regret not getting it? Will it still be available in a few years? Will it have a demand in 15 years if you want to sell it?

When Premier stopped selling Signia in the USA, I regretted not getting the Cherry Stain 8" for the 200-220 USD. I found a Sapphire Blue one after waiting, but it took a long, long time to find the Cherry Stain one and it was missing hardware.

There was high demand for the 8 inch and a guy offered to buy the blue one and said to keep what hardware is needed to complete the Cherry Stain for myself and he'd pay what the incomplete Cherry Stain cost me. Finally got it after some headaches.
It's an ok tom. Not a go to, but I'm happy with it.
 
If I wanted to buy something like that, I'd be more likely just to buy a single roto tom or one of those DW piccolo toms. Used, you can get one for less than $100, and you can mount them just about anywhere. They are shallow, so you could even overlap them a little over a drum, cymbal, etc.

My thoughts exactly. As I said in the original post, most of the time I ended up using it the same way one of those would be.
 
So what about 8” Rototoms? I have heard them unamplified on gigs, but it’s been decades. As I recall they carried well, but it could be that I’m remembering wrong, as our tastes change.
 
For a long time, I've been playing a piecemeal kit. Recently, I finally upgraded everything except my floor tom (and that will be replaced soon enough) to Yamaha Stage Customs. With my prior kit, though, I'd added an 8" rack tom to my 10" and 12". I'd admired the triple rack tom setup for a while (Copeland was a big reason for that) and the 8" 10" 12" combination particularly intrigued me. Some of my heroes like Time Alexander played 8" 10" 12" and I noticed these days it seems to be pretty standard for a lot of gospel chops dudes (who make good use of them in their lightspeed fills.) Danny Carey is still, apparently, using an 8" as well.

When I upgraded to the Yamahas this month, I didn't bother to buy an 8". I realized I was fine with 10" and 12". I used the three rack tom setup for a while and it was a lot of fun to play but, ultimately, the 8" just seemed like an indulgence. I didn't play it much outside of fills or as an accent with a rimshot. I had to tune it very high and it didn't really work that well as part of a group with the others. It was more like a mini timbale or octoban. One of the only really top notch players I've heard talk about the use of the 8" specifically is Weckl, who had this to say in a 2013 interview with Drumhead Magazine:



So, what's the consensus here on the 8"? A useful addition? A needless luxury? All situation dependent?
I love the variety of sounds you can get from the 8,10,12, 16 combination, in my case 8 ,10 ,12 ,14,16 as shown in the avatar pic. I say situation dependent but I try to implement as much as possible without changing the essence of the music.

Good example of multiple tom sizes being used here:


I will cover that song soon, I just need to get some time to setup my drum room...
 
I don't like the sound of roto-toms, except for specific uses, although I haven't tried them lately. A local guy has a complete kit of them. I don't care for the sound. It's a beautiful thing to look at though.
 
No where in this discussion did anyone wonder what music was being played and did it call for that voice? You and the gear serve the music. Of course, if you’re just playing for yourself in a bedroom, then I guess we can’t discuss whether or not the 8” is appropriate. Just say it is because you’re not in a situation where the music is dictating what you need. Once you start playing in bands a lot, you end up in Charlie Watts-ville.

I recall going to sub for a friend at a bar and he said his drums were already there and I get there and he has six toms! Patrons noticed that as the night went on, the kit was getting smaller (I was taking away drums I didn’t need). By the end of the night I think it was a 3-piece and I left it that way when I went home.

Again, my third option was "situation dependent." That said, there's some things I don't think are ever appropriate. I think anyone playing a kick that's larger than 24" as part of a kit has no musical justification.
 
For a long time, I've been playing a piecemeal kit. Recently, I finally upgraded everything except my floor tom (and that will be replaced soon enough) to Yamaha Stage Customs. With my prior kit, though, I'd added an 8" rack tom to my 10" and 12". I'd admired the triple rack tom setup for a while (Copeland was a big reason for that) and the 8" 10" 12" combination particularly intrigued me. Some of my heroes like Time Alexander played 8" 10" 12" and I noticed these days it seems to be pretty standard for a lot of gospel chops dudes (who make good use of them in their lightspeed fills.) Danny Carey is still, apparently, using an 8" as well.

When I upgraded to the Yamahas this month, I didn't bother to buy an 8". I realized I was fine with 10" and 12". I used the three rack tom setup for a while and it was a lot of fun to play but, ultimately, the 8" just seemed like an indulgence. I didn't play it much outside of fills or as an accent with a rimshot. I had to tune it very high and it didn't really work that well as part of a group with the others. It was more like a mini timbale or octoban. One of the only really top notch players I've heard talk about the use of the 8" specifically is Weckl, who had this to say in a 2013 interview with Drumhead Magazine:



So, what's the consensus here on the 8"? A useful addition? A needless luxury? All situation dependent?
I Love it for certain styles( Prog, Jazz rock, Latin Jazz) For fills only. Buuuuut it is a PIA to tune and not get Snare Buzz. I tuned it really low and sounded like shit. Tuned really high and sounded odd, like a tiny Octaban . I ended up tuning it low on the 2 bottom lugs and medium high on the two upper lugs. it sounds decent but still buzzes snare a bit. Moongels did not help at all. i have spent massive amount of time trying to fix the buzz. On songs i dont need it for i cover it with a towel, lol
 
Really depends on the sound envelope I'm trying to fill for the song.

You can hear the musicians who have endured mid-range distorted guitar fatigue. They tend to avoid the mid range where a low 8" tom would ring out.
 
"The first problem came up as I started to get into more acoustic situations. Those small drums were all tuned and set up for mics, but without microphones they disappeared because they couldn't compete acoustically.
This is the part of the interview that hit it for me. I have much the same issues with larger drums that have tunings for the studio. Get them on stage where no mics are used, they just vanish. So I have to tune them to a whole different range for different show situations.

You mentioning about how the 8" is mostly a timbale or octoban is spot on. I'll have it to my left for fills and effects depending on the song.
 
I have no experience with a smaller tom (12-13-16 currently) but I've often thought having a 10 with this kit would be fun, and if I had a 10, why not an 8 too? :) Not gonna happen for a number of reasons, but I think it would be fun.

If you aren't schlepping it around gigging, why not have it available, if you like the idea?
 
I have an 8" concert tom. I dont like it one bit, so I gave it to my wife's bird to bang on, which he does not. He uses the lugs as mirrors and whistles at himself.

I've never used a two headed 8" tom. I would absolutely give it a fair go. I dont have high hopes for it however based upon my previous concert tom experience.

I absolutely am a fan of the 10".
 
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