Interesting quote from Dave Elitch regarding rudiments

Hollywood Jim said:
I have found that the most important part of the rudiments is alternating the left and right while practicing any rudiment.
It has helped me a great deal while playing the drum set. If I am about to start or end up on the wrong hand while playing, I can seamlessly switch to the other hand. Almost without even thinking about it. (Did that make sense to you all?)
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Do you mean practicing rudiments that naturally alternate, or adding a strategic single/double/kick at certain points to reverse the leading hand, or forcing stickings that usually wouldn't alternate to do so (switching to between the left and right hand lead versions with each repetition)? Bozzio has talked about that last approach.
 
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Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
I can't ever remember thinking about my time being spent on rudiments as being detrimental to my drum set playing....

in fact, having spent a huge amount of time on rudiments has:
- allowed me to have the hand strength last 3 hour gigs of money beat
- allowed me the independence and chops to play Latin beats
- allowed me the facility to figure out and apply complicated beat patterns around the kit
- forced me to listen to some music that I never would have before
- has helped develop a train beat that consistently gets comments from other players
- has helped me develop 4 way independence

do I directly use inverted cheese pataflafla's on drum set?

no (well...sometimes I try to...)

but I do use the skills it took to develop those on drum set every-time I play

statements like this always make me lose a bit of faith in educators, and feel sorry for the students who had short-sighted, close minded teachers like that....
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Joe Morello's Master Studies is a personal favorite. Very well done.
 
Matt Suda said:
I think there is important context from Dave’s instagram post missing in the OP, and it comes directly after what Thomas quoted:

“It’s imperative that we make smart choices when it comes to what we choose to practice. So many times when I’m working with someone, they are working on things simply because they can’t do them and that’s not a good enough reason in my book.”
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And more context, he's responding to a quote from Stanley Spector:

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And the rest of his quote:

I had a student send me some quotes by Stanley Spector who was a drum teacher that’d I’d previously never heard of before. He sounded like an interesting character and I still can’t decide if he was nuts or not because it’s hard to find a lot of information about him other than secondhand blurbs here and there.

I did however, come across this quote circa 1980 from him in regard to his opinion about rudiments and I couldn’t agree more.

I’ve always thought that there has been far too much emphasis on rudiments as a topic of study and how they are fundamentally out dated and largely irrelevant in regards to playing the drum set in a contemporary music setting in the 20th, let alone 21st century. You want to play drum corps or pipe band? Go for it, just don’t fool yourself into thinking it has anything to do with playing the drums. It doesn’t.

It’s imperative that we make smart choices when it comes to what we choose to practice. So many times when I’m working with someone, they are working on things simply because they can’t do them and that’s not a good enough reason in my book.
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Maybe it's just my natural cynicism, but all I see is the commercial angle with this, coming at people like Everything you know is wrong! Seek out my proprietary content for more information. Spector had more than a little of that going too.

There's actually a telling(?) exchange with Dan Weiss, who commented:

Love you and I think what you say has some value. But I also think that the rudimental vernacular is one of the defining elements of drummers such as Cozy Cole, Max Roach, Philly Joe Jones , Elvin Jones, Frankie Dunlop, Alan Dawson Tony Williams, etc. If I am teaching someone how to swing and play in this style I most certainly teach rudiments ( see my new course :) because it is part of the language. If I teach someone who is interested in something else I might not teach rudiments at all. Context is everything. There’s no one way, there’s no right way.
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Elitch responds:

This is more geared towards someone who wants to play contemporary drum set and contemporary music. If we’re talking about jazz and a certain approach to jazz that harkens back to when military drumming was a direct influence on it as an art form, then sure, absolutely. I’m just saying that someone thinking (or being taught to) play a triple ratamcue as if that will help them or have any relation to feel/pocket/time - that’s where it all falls apart for me
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The bold is mine. Like, does he know anything about any of those players? I'm not sure he does. Which would explain a lot.

Totally with him on the ratamacues though, hahahaha!
 
There is no doubt we play some combination of rudiments whether you practice or acknowledge it as s a rudiment. But I think the real benefit is developing dexterity/ambidexterity with your limbs so you can lead either limb and you don’t have a weaker hand.
 
toddbishop said:
And more context, he's responding to a quote from Stanley Spector:

View attachment 142754

And the rest of his quote:



Maybe it's just my natural cynicism, but all I see is the commercial angle with this, coming at people like Everything you know is wrong! Seek out my proprietary content for more information. Spector had more than a little of that going too.

There's actually a telling(?) exchange with Dan Weiss, who commented:



Elitch responds:



The bold is mine. Like, does he know anything about any of those players? I'm not sure he does. Which would explain a lot.

Totally with him on the ratamacues though, hahahaha!
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The purpose of practicing the original or PAS 40 rudiments can be more than being able to play drum corp, marching band, etc., or to play them musically on the drumset. Although, when you really have a rudiment mastered, with a little imagination, there are musical ways to play them on the drumset, even the triple ratamacue. Steve Gadd's drumset ratamacue anyone.

More to the point, they are a great hand technique builder whatever technique you use (freestroke, Moeller, open/closed, etc.). If you train with weights it's not necessarily for the purpose of competing in weight lifting competitions. Virtually all competitive pro athletes train with weights to improve their conditioning and competitiveness. Many non-athletes train with weights to improve their health and/or for aesthetic/self esteem reasons.

In addition, a rudiment doesn't have to be one of the original 26 or 40 to be a rudiment. We all have licks that we practice, play and use in multiple ways. Patterns like RLL, RRL, RLF, RLFF, RLLF, RRLF, RLRLFF, RLRLLF are all rudiments, IMO, that can be practiced, perfected and applied to the drumset in as many ways as you can imagine.
 
Matched Gripper said:
The purpose of practicing the original or PAS 40 rudiments can be more than being able to play drum corp, marching band, etc., or to play them musically on the drumset. Although, when you really have a rudiment mastered, with a little imagination, there are musical ways to play them on the drumset, even the triple ratamacue. Steve Gadd's drumset ratamacue anyone.

More to the point, they are a great hand technique builder whatever technique you use (freestroke, Moeller, open/closed, etc.). If you train with weights it's not necessarily for the purpose of competing in weight lifting competitions. Virtually all competitive pro athletes train with weights to improve their conditioning and competitiveness. Many non-athletes train with weights to improve their health and/or for aesthetic/self esteem reasons.

In addition, a rudiment doesn't have to be one of the original 26 or 40 to be a rudiment. We all have licks that we practice, play and use in multiple ways. Patterns like RLL, RRL, RLF, RLFF, RLLF, RRLF, RLRLFF, RLRLLF are all rudiments, IMO, that can be practiced, perfected and applied to the drumset in as many ways as you can imagine.
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I think that's what he's taking about, having an intention or a goal in mind, not just practicing them for their own sake, because someone said they were important.

Rudiments are not going to make you better by themselves, it all depends on your approach.
 
OHD said:
I think that's what he's taking about, having an intention or a goal in mind, not just practicing them for their own sake, because someone said they were important.

Rudiments are not going to make you better by themselves, it all depends on your approach.
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Man it's just funny how people market themselves, like they're the guy who invented doing something on purpose.

I don't think anyone recommends monofocusing on rudiments as the sole path to improvement.
 
toddbishop said:
The bold is mine. Like, does he know anything about any of those players? I'm not sure he does. Which would explain a lot.
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Eh, I don’t take his side, but the drummers named all had a military influence except Tony W. Some of them were in the army band, some of them came up during wartime when the military style was the norm in jazz.
 
bongoman said:
Eh, I don’t take his side, but the drummers named all had a military influence except Tony W. Some of them were in the army band, some of them came up during wartime when the military style was the norm in jazz.
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They all used the rudiments to one degree or another, I think that's vastly overstating the actual military drumming influence on them.
 
Hollywood Jim said:
I have found that the most important part of the rudiments is alternating the left and right while practicing any rudiment.
It has helped me a great deal while playing the drum set. If I am about to start or end up on the wrong hand while playing, I can seamlessly switch to the other hand. Almost without even thinking about it. (Did that make sense to you all?) It is hard to explain. I guess it is called being truely ambidextrous or is it called independence.

As a young man I practiced many hours playing rudiments around the drum kit. Creating fills and drum solos is extremely easy for me. I only wish I had included using the bass drum as part of the rudiments.

.
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Morello calls it "Hand to Hand" Deffinitely something I've taken to heart in my playing.
 
toddbishop said:
Man it's just funny how people market themselves, like they're the guy who invented doing something on purpose.

I don't think anyone recommends monofocusing on rudiments as the sole path to improvement.
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I don't know, he's got tons of students. Maybe he's seen a trend of people that focus on the wrong thing or something like that.

But yeah, it could be just marketing. Nothing wrong with that if you take it in context.
 
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