Interesting quote from Dave Elitch regarding rudiments

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
yes...if my gut says that is what to do...and it has said that many times in my life, with some success, and some failure, but at least I had the option

and also, what is wrong with writing a pattern based on the rudiments if it fits the part? There are a jillion songs where the choice was made to use the paradiddle pattern split between the hi hat, ride and snare to create groove....is that all wrong just because it is a rudiment?

I still don't get this war against/distaste for the rudiments....it is really weird to me.
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It’s not a war against rudiments. I can appreciate that some may believe it sounds like it is, but it’s more about how mastery of rudiments shouldn’t be the main goal.

toddbishop said:
Not sure I follow your thought process here. It's just stuff, playing vocabulary. If you know stuff to play, maybe you'll play it sometime. If you don't know any stuff to play, you'll be flailing, and maybe something OK will happen, maybe not.
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Like I said, I’m not against the idea of working on rudiments. I’ve spent time learning some of them my own self. I also said I thought Dave worded his comments awkwardly. And maybe I did, too. Won’t be the first time I’ve been accused of that. Again, it’s the idea that mastery of rudiments equals mastery of set drumming any more than mastery of modal playing makes me a master of playing bass.
 
I think, in any occupation, that success can put you in a position where you may just be rambling off thoughts ,without much thought , and an audience who respects your success gives that credence. Everybody says stupid things without much thought but when you get called on it you have two options: try to save face with perverse logical gymnastics or just fess up you said something stupid. I suggest the later.
 
DrumDoug said:
I totally get what Dave is saying about people practicing the wrong things. If your goal is to get into a touring pop band, why are you trying to get your patachesseflaflas up to 200bpm when you can’t play to a click with a good feel? Maybe your time might be better spent getting your Ableton programming up to speed. Kenny Arnoff talks about functional practice. Practice the things you are going to use on a gig. Can working on rudiments help with some of that? Sure. Spending all your time working on rudiments can also distract you from working on other weaknesses in your playing. There are many skills you need to play in a modern band besides hand technique. You have to keep your goals in mind and balance things.
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I think the BIG point that is always missed is BALANCE...

to be good, you have to have a balanced set of skills. If you don't it will show, no matter what you think.

too much rudiments; too much money beat; too much Ableton; too much blast beat; too much Latin etc = not enough skill set

when teachers start just denying/ignoring/downplaying things b/c THEY can't do them, then that is bad. I see this on all instruments all the time.

i know for a fact that i need more work on Latin stuff...BUT, I don't just blow it off as "a waste of time to learn" because I can't teach it. I let my ego go and send my students to someone who can.

and even though I don't play in any situations that directly involve Latin beats, I DO play in situations that involve demanding 4 way coordiantion...and work on Latin will definitely improve that
 
JimmyM said:
It’s not a war against rudiments. I can appreciate that some may believe it sounds like it is, but it’s more about how mastery of rudiments shouldn’t be the main goal.
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oh no, I was not saying that you are a "warrior", but there is definitely a demographic of drummers who think the rudiments are pointless...just like there is a demographic of bass players who think the frets above the 5th fret are "wasted space"

I encounter these people here locally a lot...and as I mentioned before, they are also always the ones who are asking me for quick fixes to get over the issues that are creating an advancement ceiling for them.
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
oh no, I was not saying that you are a "warrior", but there is definitely a demographic of drummers who think the rudiments are pointless...just like there is a demographic of bass players who think the frets above the 5th fret are "wasted space"
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Well that’s just dumb ;). At least rudiments serve a purpose. Ignoring anything above the 5th fret is just a silly idea that has no practical purpose.
 
JimmyM said:
Well that’s just dumb ;). At least rudiments serve a purpose. Ignoring anything above the 5th fret is just a silly idea that has no practical purpose.
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but when on TalkBass, the running rhetoric was that 5th and beyond were for show offs and "musicians" 5th and below is "where the money is"

and that is just dumb!!!
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
but when on TalkBass, the running rhetoric was that 5th and beyond were for show offs and "musicians" 5th and below is "where the money is"

and that is just dumb!!!
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Ever notice what kinds of bands those folks are in? Khaki shorts and sandals, and anything that calls the least little attention to themselves is wrong. Pfft on that!
 
Nothing is that black or white. Somewhat off the cuff but good advice gets amplified on the internet and treated as if it's a 'law' that must not be broken.
I happen to prefer playing with bass players who play low and simple, I least prefer guys who are competing with the guitar frequencies and filling every bar with multiple notes. But there are a lot of stopping off points along that journey. Playing with a guy who suddenly plays something melodic in the upper register, after sticking low and simple for most of the song is wonderful.
As someone said earlier, drum rudiments are a vocabulary, helping you to communicate. Having a wider vocabulary is never a bad thing, but dominating the conversation, talking over others with a lot of obscure big words IS annoying.
 
Chris Whitten said:
Nothing is that black or white. Somewhat off the cuff but good advice gets amplified on the internet and treated as if it's a 'law' that must not be broken.
I happen to prefer playing with bass players who play low and simple, I least prefer guys who are competing with the guitar frequencies and filling every bar with multiple notes. But there are a lot of stopping off points along that journey. Playing with a guy who suddenly plays something melodic in the upper register, after sticking low and simple for most of the song is wonderful.
As someone said earlier, drum rudiments are a vocabulary, helping you to communicate. Having a wider vocabulary is never a bad thing, but dominating the conversation, talking over others with a lot of obscure big words IS annoying.
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Come on now Chris, that's far too reasonable an approach for an internet discussion!
 
In biology a rudiment is an undeveloped organ. One of rudimentary organs in man is the coccygeal vertebrae. So it's a good thing it's rudimentary or else we'd have a heck of a time sitting on a drum throne with a tail. Although it would be cool to have a tail to play the cowbell or clave. Just clearing up any ambiguity.
 
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This guy is one of those ppl that seem to say divisive things to get attention.
 
Chris Whitten said:
Nothing is that black or white. Somewhat off the cuff but good advice gets amplified on the internet and treated as if it's a 'law' that must not be broken.
I happen to prefer playing with bass players who play low and simple, I least prefer guys who are competing with the guitar frequencies and filling every bar with multiple notes. But there are a lot of stopping off points along that journey. Playing with a guy who suddenly plays something melodic in the upper register, after sticking low and simple for most of the song is wonderful.
As someone said earlier, drum rudiments are a vocabulary, helping you to communicate. Having a wider vocabulary is never a bad thing, but dominating the conversation, talking over others with a lot of obscure big words IS annoying.
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true on all accounts

and I also prefer to play with people who can speak musically as well, no matter where it is on the fretboard or rudimentally.

I would hate to be in a situation where I am expected to play in a box because of some unwritten rule about what is acceptable, rather than what the music is calling for. So I avoid those situations.
 
I wrote many draft answers to this thread, and have been following it for a while. Ultimately, I realised I had already produced a video that says everything I want to say about rudiments and their role in modern drumming.

I don’t know who Dave Elitch is, but for those who are interested in what I have to say, as someone with a deep passion for Rudimental drumming and snare drum pedagogy, this is it:

 
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