Endorsement deals: Vinnie no longer with Ludwig?

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
If Vinnie really wanted to be with DW, he would have gone there 18 months ago instead of Ludwig.

Bermuda
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
...

Its never about the principle, its always about the money.

...
Ummm, what money?? Surely you don't believe that Ludwig, DW, or any other legit companies pay any of their artists.

However, some companies will "guarantee" a certain number of clinics for which the artist is paid, but they have to work for that, the money isn't just handed over. And trust me, there aren't enough weekends in the year to make working for clinic pay worthwhile.

Bermuda
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Ummm, what money?? Surely you don't believe that Ludwig, DW, or any other legit companies pay any of their artists.
I think a lack of cash payment direct to artists is a given. But a logistics and support network would come from the company purse, wouldn't it? I'm guessing some artist requirements take up more of that purse than others.....and some artists require things that the purse just can't provide? Or am I way off base here?
 

gretsch-o-rama

Senior Member
I, for one, believe that for Vinnie it is about the drums. His ludwigs sounded like crap when I saw him recently. Like a gretsch set on a really bad day. I've heard from roundabout (but reliable) sources that he's not going to endorse anything for the time being. He's looking around though...I think it'd be cool to see him on a different brand every night but that's not realistic logistically or for consistency.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Funny part is Vinnie has been recording with Ludwigs for years. Not like that's going to change, regardless of who he endorses.
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
I, for one, believe that for Vinnie it is about the drums. His ludwigs sounded like crap when I saw him recently. Like a gretsch set on a really bad day. I've heard from roundabout (but reliable) sources that he's not going to endorse anything for the time being. He's looking around though...I think it'd be cool to see him on a different brand every night but that's not realistic logistically or for consistency.
I agree with the sound observation. None of the LUDWIG kits I've heard him play do anything for me in the sound dept, can't say its despicable, just not inspiring and certainly not as good sounding as the GRETSCH kits he's played over the years. The way he tunes and plays does have something to do with it.

By comparison you'd have to work hard at getting a GRETSCH kit to sound off, or at least Vinnie would have to work hard at it, put effort into it. Consistency and ease of getting a good sound, not a lot of drums have that sonic attribute.

I can see Vinnie going to DW, look at the emphasis J Good puts on working hand in hand w/artists, Im sure he'd love to have Vinnie on board. DW is supporting A list drummers like those drummers envision being supported. The DW door opens wide to someone like Colaiuta, hard not to want to be a part of that.
 
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gretsch-o-rama

Senior Member
I agree with the sound observation. None of the LUDWIG kits I've heard him play do anything for me in the sound dept, can't say its despicable, just not inspiring and certainly not as good sounding as the GRETSCH kits he's played over the years. The way he tunes and plays does have something to do with it.

By comparison you'd have to work hard at getting a GRETSCH kit to sound off, or at least Vinnie would have to work hard at it, put effort into it.
Ive heard Vinnie make tuning choices that did not "show off" the gretsch sound. The Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scott's comes to mind. Just absolutely no tone coming from those drums and it's that's the way you tune, why play Gretsch? Of course that kind of thing had been going on for years....I don't even know how he could have technique on a drum tuned that low..
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
Ive heard Vinnie make tuning choices that did not "show off" the gretsch sound. The Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scott's comes to mind. Just absolutely no tone coming from those drums and it's that's the way you tune, why play Gretsch? Of course that kind of thing had been going on for years....I don't even know how he could have technique on a drum tuned that low..
When you play a lot things can easily change over night. Its all about the feel IMO (or in my case), sound being subjective as it is... but even so GRETSCH kits sound more pleasing over a wider tuning range to me than do LUDWIGS.

It is all up to the person playing the set, they have to be comfortable. I won't sacrifice comfort for sound, the differences are to drastic.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Vinnie signed w/GRETSCH in 93'... so 20 years, that 'is' a long time.
I had to look it up.

It was closer to 95/96.

Still, that is much longer than I was thinking. He had been a Yamaha guy for so long before that, that in my head, it's only been a few years ago that he left Yamaha. time flies!
 

Chunkaway

Silver Member
I agree with the sound observation. None of the LUDWIG kits I've heard him play do anything for me in the sound dept, can't say its despicable, just not inspiring and certainly not as good sounding as the GRETSCH kits he's played over the years. The way he tunes and plays does have something to do with it.

By comparison you'd have to work hard at getting a GRETSCH kit to sound off, or at least Vinnie would have to work hard at it, put effort into it. Consistency and ease of getting a good sound, not a lot of drums have that sonic attribute.

I can see Vinnie going to DW, look at the emphasis J Good puts on working hand in hand w/artists, Im sure he'd love to have Vinnie on board. DW is supporting A list drummers like those drummers envision being supported. The DW door opens wide to someone like Colaiuta, hard not to want to be a part of that.
There are plenty of youtube clips out there where Vinne's Gretsch drums sound like crap - cardboard boxes with mics. The room, the tuning, the heads all play a big role. I like Gretsch drums, but I also like Ludwig drums, so I'mnot biased here. I tend to go off what I can make the drums sound like rather than what I heard a kit sound like in a big venue with tons of mics, compression, effects, etc...
 
T

The Old Hyde

Guest
Wow it sounds like GRETSCH kit are magic. I guess I should ask Bob Gatzen if I should switch from my 3ply maple luddies.
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
Les, it takes no more or less effort to make a Gretsch kit sound 'off' than it does with any other equivalent kit. Gretsch make superb drums but it's very easy to make them sound terrible - don't tune them.

You're very partisan here and it's not productive.

Do you have an allegiance with Gretsch? In the years you've been here I've never seen you post your kit once.
 

jornthedrummer

Silver Member
I think a lack of cash payment direct to artists is a given. But a logistics and support network would come from the company purse, wouldn't it? I'm guessing some artist requirements take up more of that purse than others.....and some artists require things that the purse just can't provide? Or am I way off base here?
Agreed!
Its either that or an issue with personal relations.
He knew how the drums sounded before he signed up - can't have changed that much the last 18 month.

thx

jorn
 

AirborneSFC

Gold Member
Hey guys I can tell you in the case of Sonor they don't pay their artists to be on the roster. As mentioned earlier they will pay for clinics and promotional type things because then they are "working" for the company. I would imagine it is the same for many companies out there.

Also not everyone gets their equipment 100% free. Often its at a discounted rate. I think as others have mentioned its more about a good working relationship and artist support more than anything else.
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
It's probably that they somehow just couldn't give the support he really needed.

It may be just MY perception of Ludwig, but it seems to me, that there are a lot of people within the company that really want to do things right, and have Ludwig REALLY as a thought of Top Dog that they once were.

It just does not seem that there is one main person there that can/will say "Let's do this, whatever it takes" at Ludwig, since it is under a parent company.

It still seems like there is a dark shadow over the company still holding it back from the flood gates opening.

There's been a ton of good stuff that has come out for sure, and it can't happen all at once, but there just isn't a figure head like a John Good out there going "Heck yeah, look at THIS cool stuff!" all the time. DW has a "face". Ludwig just doesn't. WFL2 was a great Ambassador for the drums, and B3 was doing things too, but the parent company thing killed them within the masses I think.
Ludwig NOT in schools?? THAT was REALLY STUPID of Selmer to drop that ball.
What better way to get new people buying the drums every year??
It's relying on the name, endorsers, and people that are nostalgic, dig the vibe etc.. Not that the sound isn't great, I love it. The drums sound like what I want when I play.

Pearl, Tama, Yamaha, etc... never had a "face" like Ludwig, or DW, but it just seems like American drums are different, and they might need it or something.

With PP, Bill Detamore had been out there at first, Johnny Craviatto has done a drum shop tour, Fred Gretsch has come out...
Even Hagi from Yamaha came out with Billy Cobham a few years ago. Ronn Dunnett has even done a bunch of stuff to promote his great kits & gear in the last couple years at shops.

Ludwig hasn't done any of that--even with all the new ATLAS gear (that is great stuff) that has come out in the last year or so.

I've played on everything like most here, and Ludwig drums just feel, and sound right for me, so I stick with them. I've also never had any issues like others too, so if I DID, I would probably feel differently.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
With PP, Bill Detamore had been out there at first, Johnny Craviatto has done a drum shop tour, Fred Gretsch has come out...
Even Hagi from Yamaha came out with Billy Cobham a few years ago. Ronn Dunnett has even done a bunch of stuff to promote his great kits & gear in the last couple years at shops.

Ludwig hasn't done any of that--even with all the new ATLAS gear (that is great stuff) that has come out in the last year or so.
Most companies do a product tour at stores to demonstrate new gear. They're presented by the local/regional reps, and/or someone from the company, and may also include artists as available.

At the end of August, I was inolved with an Atlas Road Show presentation at Bentley's, with Ludwig's Kevin Packard and rep Eddie Kramer (no, not the famous engineer/producer!) Ludwig also did the same at Pro Drum with So Cal rep Mike Brucher. So yes, Ludwig as a company is out there helping drummers - and dealers - become more familiar with their products.

As for dealers, Ludwig holds a few "dealer summits" each year, inviting 10 or 12 dealer owners (or drum department managers) to Monroe, along with a suprise guest artist, to show off upcoming gear and do some important R&D and Q&A (I was invited in 2012 and saw the Atlas mount there for the first time.) I know that other major companies do the same for their dealers/managers, but of course it's a company expense, so not every "brand" can afford to educate their dealers in that way.

Also on the dealer front, local reps regularly visit their stores' drum departments and talk with the employees about new products, answer questions, and otherwise help the dealer help sell the brand. Ludwig and every major company is all about that at one level or another.

Bermuda
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
At the end of August, I was inolved with an Atlas Road Show presentation at Bentley's, with Ludwig's Kevin Packard and rep Eddie Kramer (no, not the famous engineer/producer!) Ludwig also did the same at Pro Drum with So Cal rep Mike Brucher. So yes, Ludwig as a company is out there helping drummers - and dealers - become more familiar with their products.
Ah, I didn't know Eddie was with Ludwig now. I haven't seen him in years.

Brucher is the man!
 
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