Endorsement deals: Vinnie no longer with Ludwig?

[Andy]

Andy,wouldn't Ludwig Legacy 3 ply maple/poplar /maple,which have an inner 30 degree bearing edge and a 1/8 " radius roundover be a forgiving drum to tune also.It seems like the ones I played,were a breeze to tune,and seemed to have a pretty decent range.

Unless I just got lucky.

Steve B

That basic format is geared to ease of tuning for sure. The 30 degree thing is irrelevant, but the radius transition between roundover & counter cut is the important bit. Essentially, the very peak that contacts the head is where all the action is. The more generous/softer the peak, the more easy it is to tune up (all other things being equal). The outer edge has a part to play too. With a straight (45 or 30 degree) cut, the film is taken through a more severe transition. With a radius to the outside, the transition from vertical tension to horizontal playing surface is more gentle. This has an affect too, although lesser compared to the bearing edge peak itself. To repeat, the inside angle (30 degree, or whatever) is almost completely irrelevant in itself.

 

[tamadrm]

I'm not saying you're wrong. But this just doesn't make sense to me. With the exception of guys like Bozzio, whose kit takes up more space than some garage apartments I've seen, I don't see how major drum companies can't just gift the gear to some of these high-profile guys. Again, I'm not calling you out, just have a hard time believing this is how business is done. You'd think these companies would see it as a long-term investment.

Actually,he's quite right about that.Not every endorser gets his or her gear completely free.As our own Bermuda has stated on numerous occasions,(and he should know) the various companys have a/b/c lists.An A list endorser will get a certain amount of free gear and repairs and logistical support,while a C list endorser may get his gear for say manufactures cost and no logistical support..

Not all endorsing artists get completely free gear,nor do they recieve any cash for their endorsment.

There's a stickey thread concerning endorsment deals by Bermuda if you'd like to give it a read.

Steve B

 

[AirborneSFC]

Actually,he's quite right about that.Not every endorser gets his or her gear completely free.As our own Bermuda has stated on numerous occasions,(and he should know) the various companys have a/b/c lists.An A list endorser will get a certain amount of free gear and repairs and logistical support,while a C list endorser may get his gear for say manufactures cost and no logistical support..

Not all endorsing artists get completely free gear,nor do they recieve any cash for their endorsment.

There's a stickey thread concerning endorsment deals by Bermuda if you'd like to give it a read.

Steve B

This was explained to me at Sonor also. Their larger artists are support by Sonor Germany. The rest are supported by Sonor in their given country.

Guys I also own two businesses and I can say that the few times I have ever "sponsored" or "endorsed" anyone it was because I felt it would be a beneficial thing to my business. Everyone has seen this on some level; supporting a local sports team, donating to a non for profit and so on.

So long as any given drummer plays what he or she likes then I don't see a big issue. Its quite entertaining at times to see people get so heated about things like this. This almost reminds of the thread about drums being made in "insert country" vs "insert country".

 

[gmiller598]

Ive also "heard" that Yamaha has some nice prototypes they'ree making for VC.

I can't imagine a company would make a prototype drum for a player unless they were heavily involved in that player with a pre-existing relationship.

However, I'm sure Yamaha has plenty of prototypes going around after their split with Sakae. I'm just not sure they would make one for a specific player unless that player is involved in the design from day 1.

 

[Les Ismore]

Hey I love Gretsch as much as anybody but Id dare say it's actually easier to mess up tuning on a USA gretsch. I find their diecast hoops, even on the renowns, easy to get over tight on one side. Triple flange don't do that as much in my experience.

That's never been my experience. 5 lug GRETSCH toms w/diecast hoops are the easiest drums to tune IMO, outside something like an ARBITER design.

 

[gretsch-o-rama]

I can't imagine a company would make a prototype drum for a player unless they were heavily involved in that player with a pre-existing relationship.

However, I'm sure Yamaha has plenty of prototypes going around after their split with Sakae. I'm just not sure they would make one for a specific player unless that player is involved in the design from day 1.

The source is reliable but believe what you want.

 

[gretsch-o-rama]

That's never been my experience. 5 lug GRETSCH toms w/diecast hoops are the easiest drums to tune IMO, outside something like an ARBITER design.

And your experience is valid. And you're special too.

 

[Les Ismore]

And your experience is valid. And you're special too.

Thanks for acknowledging that gretsch-o-rama, and IMO everyone on this forum is special.

 

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

The switch to Ludwig was strange to me. Not because I love that sound and play Gretsch, defiently influenced by Vinnie, but because he's been endorsing them, and Zildjian too, for such a long time.

I think Ludwig drums are cool and if I was rich I would have a kit, and probably other brands too, even if I'd consider Gretsch my main choice. Do the Brian Blade thing. Why not?

Hearing him with Sting on the blast tour, regardless of why, I started enjoying his sound a lot less after the switch. Just a personal opinion, but it seems it's one that many share. Nothing against Ludwig drums. I've heard Ludwigs sound fantastic in many musical situations. The current Sting gig is not one of those.

If I was to guess DW is a logical choice. They're a big company, have many big name endorsers and though their older models never suited my ear, it seems they can make anything and the new jazz kits sound really nice. Besides, the side snare pictured with a towel over it in the "Ludwig" interview looks to be a DW unless my eyes have failed me completely.

We'll see.

 

[aydee]

...

Maybe Jon and other endorsers here can bear me out, (at least in private because publically it would be a no-no to do anything but to sing the praises on the given brand) but I think any top brand can customize and deliver any kind of sound, size or look that a particular player demands from his drum set.

The story really is about what else they put on the table in exchange for a contracted number of clinics, and the number of days the player might be required for advertisment purposes.

The quality of the relationship and the support one gets on tour would be a big reason to go with a particular brand.


...

 

[gmiller598]

The source is reliable but believe what you want.

I'm not saying they aren't doing it. I guess my point is if Yamaha is making some prototypes for him, its because he is involved in the design process. Not just because they think they know what he wants hoping to secure him as an endorser. It would seem like a waste of money and R&D to make a kit for someone without knowing what they want.

 

[DrumEatDrum]

I can't imagine a company would make a prototype drum for a player unless they were heavily involved in that player with a pre-existing relationship.

However, I'm sure Yamaha has plenty of prototypes going around after their split with Sakae. I'm just not sure they would make one for a specific player unless that player is involved in the design from day 1.

It happens from time to time. If it's one of the biggest names in drums, and their is a chance to snag said name from one company to yours, you bet the bigger companies will make up some prototypes.

Sure, it doesn't happen very often, but if it's a a HUGE name in the industry, why not? All the big companies have R&D departments making protypes as it is.

I'm not saying they aren't doing it. I guess my point is if Yamaha is making some prototypes for him, its because he is involved in the design process. Not just because they think they know what he wants hoping to secure him as an endorser. It would seem like a waste of money and R&D to make a kit for someone without knowing what they want.

Well,yes, obvious, prototypes are being made with an intent in mind.

 

[KarlCrafton]

Haven't chimed in so far. This is pretty interesting.
Until Vinnie say's something, it's all speculation, but, if it wasn't the sound he wasn't digging, there may have been an offer he couldn't pass up.

To me, DW comes to mind as a contender in that they have "everything" someone could need as an artist, in the studio and for touring, plus the marketing visibility.

They can pretty much make up anything, and have a few kits here and there. They make their own shells, AND John Good appears to be so into it--the creating stuff for the artists, and it seems like it's not that big a deal.

The DW Maple/Mahogany shells are awesome, and so are the Jazz shells. Those 2 lines have a lot of sound character covered.

Look at some of the crazy stuff they have done for Neil Peart. Beisides the Steampunk kit, there was the NHL kit that was used for what? A commercial seen by not that many people to get anything of substance from it from a business stand point.
From a FYeah! angle, it's pretty cool. There's also Terry Bozzio, who had some hand in designing things as well as having crazy, cool, interesting kits. Other artists too.

AND with DW there's no "parent company" in the way holding anything back, IF that was a problem in some way--wild unfounded speculation on my part. Maybe.
I just have a feeling it could be some HIGHER UP higher up's that might have soured things in some way.
A couple years ago, Frankie Banali, who was HUGE lover/supporter of Ludwig drums, and a great Ambassador for them had someone say they "wanted to see his resume", and were going to decide weather to "keep him on" as an endorser. He posted things on his site.
This was BEFORE anyone really started buying the drums again! He told them to shove off.
What a way to treat someone who was in a good position to promote the product, and did so for many years. he's not highly visible as much anymore, but to do that? Really? I wonder if that person is even still with Ludwig.

 

[Les Ismore]

... I think any top brand can customize and deliver any kind of sound, size or look that a particular player demands from his drum set.


Not every company is willing to build a signature 'drum kit', and judging by the lack thereof, LUDWIG the least so.

I'll bet $100 Vinnie pitches his tent in Oxnard next.

 

[Bo Eder]

I speculate that Vinnie is probably leaving drumming altogether and is in negotiations with Kamaka ukuleles to be the next Hawaiian-uke star

He's already done the drumming thing and there's probably nothing else he could do to make it more of a challenge - what better way to continue to challenge yourself than by leaving everything?

Wouldn't that be news?

 

[Les Ismore]

Vinnie is probably leaving drumming altogether and is in negotiations with Kamaka ukuleles to be the next Hawaiian-uke star





Move in stereo, kinda like Greg Hawkes did? (You gotta hear the bridge-outro starting @ 3:51)

Its so easy to fool with the sound.

 

[Bo Eder]

Vinnie is probably leaving drumming altogether and is in negotiations with Kamaka ukuleles to be the next Hawaiian-uke star





Move in stereo, kinda like Greg Hawkes did? (You gotta hear the bridge-outro starting @ 3:51)

Its so easy to fool with the sound.

Ha! I've been following that Greg Hawkes guy on his uke journey. That stuff is great to hear - his rendition of "Drive" was especially poignant

Vinnie could do the same thing - but do it with Zappa songs!

 

[steadypocket]

Rumor has it that Andy's story about recording snares this week was a smokescreen to throw us off the scent on what he's really been doing. He's been in weeklong negotiations in Bora Bora with Vinnie, hammering out the details of an endorsement deal. Keep your ears peeled for the announcement of Guru's newest artist!

 

[G-2]

Rumor has it that Andy's story about recording snares this week was a smokescreen to throw us off the scent on what he's really been doing. He's been in weeklong negotiations in Bora Bora with Vinnie, hammering out the details of an endorsement deal. Keep your ears peeled for the announcement of Guru's newest artist!

I knew it! Thanks steadypocket!