Endorsement deals: Vinnie no longer with Ludwig?

Joe Morris

DRUMMERWORLD PRO DRUMMER
Being an endorser myself I will throw my 2 cents in. Listen man, you know your a drum god when people instantly know who you are by your first name. LOL. Ok, its that simple. You say "Vinnie" you know who your talking about. You hear "Vinnie" you know its Vinnie. Vinnie isn't just a drummer he is a master as his craft. Very rarely if ever will a drummer sign with a company and then just leave because he's not happy with the product. Alot of effort goes into it on both sides. Especially with a guy of Vinnie's stature.

So I doubt Vinnie was unhappy with his drums. I have left endorsement companies for the same reason its called SUPPORT. I'n my humble opinion I'm guessing Vinnie wanted something Ludwig couldn't deliver he got pissed and quit.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Vinnie did leave, I don't have all the details, but I've heard some cogent speculation from some folks who are sufficiently connected. Nothing I can share here, but it wasn't that he didn't like the drums. Vinnie's always been a closet Ludwig guy. :)

Bermuda
 

Chunkaway

Silver Member
Maybe Ludwig can turn things around.i had a horrible experience with them back in the 80's.i have seen the new drums but they aren't quite yet ready to run with the big dogs yet.thats putting it very nicely...
Over the past ten years I have purchased kits from Ayotte, Gretsch, Yamaha, DW, Pork Pie, C&C, and Ludwig. In fact, I have purchased several Ludwig kits and all of them were terrific sounding and of fantastic quality. I would put them up against any of the kits I have owned. In fact I sold all of the kits except for Ludwig and C&C. Yep, they are THAT good.
 

poika

Silver Member
Being an endorser myself I will throw my 2 cents in. Listen man, you know your a drum god when people instantly know who you are by your first name. LOL. Ok, its that simple. You say "Vinnie" you know who your talking about.
When I hear "Vinnie" this is the first thing that always comes to mind :)
After a few seconds I realise this is a drummer's forum and I understand it's the other Vinnie people are talking about
 

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brady

Platinum Member
When I hear "Vinnie" this is the first thing that always comes to mind :)
After a few seconds I realise this is a drummer's forum and I understand it's the other Vinnie people are talking about
This is the only "Vinnie" ("Vinny") I think of...
 

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AirborneSFC

Gold Member
Vinnie did leave, I don't have all the details, but I've heard some cogent speculation from some folks who are sufficiently connected. Nothing I can share here, but it wasn't that he didn't like the drums. Vinnie's always been a closet Ludwig guy. :)

Bermuda
Thanks for the scoop!

This community is awesome. Big name drummers chime in on the actual deal. Maybe it's just us drumming fans that get a kick out of this but hey I think its cool.
 

brady

Platinum Member
Thanks for the scoop!

This community is awesome. Big name drummers chime in on the actual deal. Maybe it's just us drumming fans that get a kick out of this but hey I think its cool.
I, for one, get a kick out of it.

Not just me, my wife too. We were watching the Weird Al "Behind The Music" the other day and after Bermuda made an appearance, my wife asked, "You really know him?! Cool!" I said We don't really know each other but he does acknowledge my existence.

Yes, a great forum indeed.
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
...Not just me, my wife too. We were watching the Weird Al "Behind The Music" the other day and after Bermuda made an appearance, my wife asked, "You really know him?! Cool!" I said We don't really know each other but he does acknowledge my existence.

Yes, a great forum indeed.
Ha ha! Same here!!!! We watched that and I said "I could go send him a message right now asking him about things and he'll reply right away." LOL

Sorry Bermuda. I'm not really that "star struck" with most people, but it's very cool that you're here participating often. Alot of us really appreciate your pro views on things. Same goes for Joe Morris and the other pros that are on here.

Thanks guys!
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Maybe Ludwig can turn things around.i had a horrible experience with them back in the 80's.i have seen the new drums but they aren't quite yet ready to run with the big dogs yet.thats putting it very nicely...
I disagree completely.I would put Ludwig drums and hardware,especially the new Atlas line,up against up against anything out there,save for some,...some, boutique builders.

Ludwig on all levels,especially the USA made drums, are just amazing instruments,on build,sound and appearence levels.

The Ludwig Black Beauty and the long lived Supra phonic are STILL industry standards

Ludwig IS the big dog.

Steve B
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for the scoop!

This community is awesome. Big name drummers chime in on the actual deal. Maybe it's just us drumming fans that get a kick out of this but hey I think its cool.
Thanks, and I wish I could share what I heard and whether I think it's valid, but without confirmation from Vinnie himself, only he and one or two folks at Ludwig will remain privy to what happened.

Since neither he or Ludwig have expressly stated that they've parted ways, and as a Ludwig artist in the know, I don't mind confirming that it's true. It's not meant to be a secret, but the end of an endorsement isn't normally something artists or companies announce. You never hear an artist say "Hi fans, I finally left xxxx!" or a company say "Good riddance to xxxx!" and neither are necessarily happy or proud about the split. Everyone just lets it go, and waits until they can say "I've just signed with xxxx" or "We're proud to welcome xxx as an endorser."

Hence the lack of hoopla at the artist or company level.

Bermuda
 
T

The Old Hyde

Guest
Thanks, and I wish I could share what I heard and whether I think it's valid, but without confirmation from Vinnie himself, only he and one or two folks at Ludwig will remain privy to what happened.

Since neither he or Ludwig have expressly stated that they've parted ways, and as a Ludwig artist in the know, I don't mind confirming that it's true. It's not meant to be a secret, but the end of an endorsement isn't normally something artists or companies announce. You never hear an artist say "Hi fans, I finally left xxxx!" or a company say "Good riddance to xxxx!" and neither are necessarily happy or proud about the split. Everyone just lets it go, and waits until they can say "I've just signed with xxxx" or "We're proud to welcome xxx as an endorser."

Hence the lack of hoopla at the artist or company level.

Bermuda
Ludwig spent a lot of time and money on advertising Vinny. There are always ads in Modern drummer. Inside cover which is an expensive spot too. At the end of the day, is there really a drum out there so superior to what vinny was playing that he had to leave? I doubt it.
 

steadypocket

Gold Member
Over the past ten years I have purchased kits from Ayotte, Gretsch, Yamaha, DW, Pork Pie, C&C, and Ludwig. In fact, I have purchased several Ludwig kits and all of them were terrific sounding and of fantastic quality. I would put them up against any of the kits I have owned. In fact I sold all of the kits except for Ludwig and C&C. Yep, they are THAT good.
Fascinating. Over the past 10 years, I've purchased new high-end kits from Pearl (Reference, Reference Pure, MCX, Sessions), DW (Collector's exotic finish), Tama (Starclassic, Starclassic Select, and Starclassic birch/bubinga), and a Ludwig ((Keystones). While I've parted with a few of those kits for various reasons, the only kit I parted with because I was dissatisfied with the product was the Ludwig. All of the other kits were especially well built.

Back to the thread, I doubt we'll ever really know why Vinnie left. The terms of his endorsement deal, and/or any legal machinations involved with terminating the deal, will likely prevent Vinnie from being open about the situation. We'll likely get some generic statement of thanks to the Ludwig family for their great support, and an explanation that for him, he was seeking to move in another direction that better reflects where is today as an artist and musician.
 

jspitza

Senior Member
Fascinating. Over the past 10 years, I've purchased new high-end kits from Pearl (Reference, Reference Pure, MCX, Sessions), DW (Collector's exotic finish), Tama (Starclassic, Starclassic Select, and Starclassic birch/bubinga), and a Ludwig ((Keystones). While I've parted with a few of those kits for various reasons, the only kit I parted with because I was dissatisfied with the product was the Ludwig. All of the other kits were especially well built.

Back to the thread, I doubt we'll ever really know why Vinnie left. The terms of his endorsement deal, and/or any legal machinations involved with terminating the deal, will likely prevent Vinnie from being open about the situation. We'll likely get some generic statement of thanks to the Ludwig family for their great support, and an explanation that for him, he was seeking to move in another direction that better reflects where is today as an artist and musician.

I'm telling ya, this is a absolutely golden opportunity for Mr V and Mapex to hook up, change the name to "VPEX" On a serious note, maybe a starting new drum company would be of interest?
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
It's not a secret that Ludwig went through a rough time in the 80's and early 90's. Quality Control was near non-existent. In retail, snares sold well, but I couldn't give a Ludwig kit away. They lost a ton of endorsers, and even their flag ship guy in Alex Van Halen didn't even have many actual Ludwig drums on stage with him for a time.

And even today, you see collectors want the 60's stuff, some of the 70's stuff, but few people get excited about the 80's era.

In the late 90's Ludwig got much of the QC problems under control and people started coming around to them again.So one person saying they bought a Ludwig in the 80's that was crap and another person saying he bought a Ludwig in 2003 that was fantastic would not surprise me.
 

Muckster

Platinum Member
I can't recall hearing any outrageous demand stories involving Vinnie through the years so i would guess there were some issues over general support.

I wonder if Sakae is on Vinnie's radar?
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Ludwig spent a lot of time and money on advertising Vinny. There are always ads in Modern drummer. Inside cover which is an expensive spot too. At the end of the day, is there really a drum out there so superior to what vinny was playing that he had to leave? I doubt it.
As always, superior is in the ear of the beholder. There are a lot of great sounding drums out there, and among the more popular brands I doubt that most drummers (or producers or engineers) could tell the difference in a blindfold test. Vinnie's departure (reputedly) had nothing to do with the sound.

But let's say that Craviotto or Brady caught his ear. Would they be able to provide the support, or amount of (typically comped) gear he needs? Those are valid considerations for some drummers, and aspects of the deal that Vinnie cannot overlook when it comes time to make a choice, assuming he'll make one in the near future.

As I'd said, Vinnie liked the sound, and any sonic disappointments were not the reason cited by my sources in a position to know.

Bermuda
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
But let's say that Craviotto or Brady caught his ear. Would they be able to provide the support, or amount of (typically comped) gear he needs? Those are valid considerations for some drummers, and aspects of the deal that Vinnie cannot overlook when it comes time to make a choice, assuming he'll make one in the near future.

Bermuda
As anyone who knows, knows, so long as the instruments make a certain grade, the rest of the deal is all about logistical support, & to a lesser but still important extent, the marketing presence of the brand. Indeed, both of those considerations way out trump the instrument themselves (with most artists). Never underestimate the costs associated with global support. They make the cost of comping gear almost irrelevant, especially at major company manufacturing cost. Nor underestimate the promotional value artists place on the manufacturers brand presence & marketing budget.

If you believe, even for one minute, that the bulk of top tier artists make a choice based mainly on their "love" for that particular instrument, irrespective of what the artist may say in public, you're way wide of the mark.
 

Basswood

Senior Member
I wonder if Sakae is on Vinnie's radar?
Would make sense if he really was into the old Yamahas. I doubt it tho, since their lack of presence in most shops.

Which was the company that recently grabbed a bunch of famous drummers? Oh, DW.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Would make sense if he really was into the old Yamahas. I doubt it tho, since their lack of presence in most shops.

Which was the company that recently grabbed a bunch of famous drummers? Oh, DW.
If you reference the points in my previous post, they are the company that put (by far) the greatest emphasis on marketing & general presence. Difficult to resist really.
 
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