DW's $4000 True Cast Bell Bronze snare!

You obviously did not make it to my other post:




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I did. Bell brass is a marketing term invented by Tama, their bell brass drums are cast bronze. Bell bronze describes an alloy (it's actually B20) used in the manufacture of church and other large bells, though different bell (and drum) manufacturers use varying amounts of tin.
 
mpthomson said:
I did. Bell brass is a marketing term invented by Tama, their bell brass drums are cast bronze. Bell bronze describes an alloy (it's actually B20) used in the manufacture of church and other large bells, though different bell (and drum) manufacturers use varying amounts of tin.
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And I suppose since they both have tires you are willing to call a Ford a Chevy.
 
MrInsanePolack said:
No. Brass can never be bronze, and bronze can never be brass. They are two different formulations made out of copper. Brass is copper and aluminium. Bronze is copper and tin. You can't add anything to brass to get bronze. Nor can you add anything to bronze to get brass. You cant remove anything from brass to get bronze. Nor can you remove anything from bronze to get brass. You must add to copper to get either.

Just like steel is an alloy of iron, brass and bronze are both alloys of copper. That's it, their only connection to each other, no matter how bad you want to believe otherwise.
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For the last time Bell Brass drums are made from cast bronze, which I fully understand is not a version of brass.

At no point have I claimed that they are or that bronze drums are made by adding or taking away something from brass.

Please re-read what I've written correctly.

Bell brass snares are unequivocally NOT made from brass, they are bronze and the name is a marketing thing.
 
mpthomson said:
For the last time Bell Brass drums are made from cast bronze, which I fully understand is not a version of brass.

At no point have I claimed that they are or that bronze drums are made by adding or taking away something from brass.

Please re-read what I've written correctly.

Bell brass snares are unequivocally NOT made from brass, they are bronze and the name is a marketing thing.
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You are calling brass bronze. That's wrong.
 
IBitePrettyHard said:

My opinion: It's a gorgeous drum! A work of art! .....but it sounds terrible. In fact, I think it's the worst sounding bell brass snare I've ever heard. I'm not even kidding.

The tone is all upper midrange, no bottom end to speak of, and has no real "crack" either, despite having an aggressive sound and lots of volume.

How is that even possible? DW managed to fit all the worst frequencies --and none of the good frequencies-- into one snare drum. And it's $4,000!

But that's just my opinion... (flame suit on)
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Hmmmmm $4K? I'm not cheap by a long shot but that's some serious money for one drum. I didn't listen to the video. I doubt it would sound "$4K good" to me.
 
MrInsanePolack said:
You are calling brass bronze. That's wrong.
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You'll be able to find a single post where I said that, then? What I'm saying, and I'm correct in this, is that what Gretsch and Tama are marketing as bell brass drums are not actually made out of brass. They are (and always have been) cast bronze. Notably DW (and Sonor, and others) have always called their drums made out of the same material 'cast bronze'.

That's why this gets so confusing and people think they have cast brass drums, when they're really bronze. Gretsch also make a cast brass drum, it's a very different colour from the bell brass (but really cast bronze) drums as they are made out of two different metals.
 
Odd-Arne Oseberg said:
Strangely, though I have some preferrences, I've liked prety much any Gretsch snare I've heard or tried.

Conversely, there aren't many DW drums I've liked at all.

I'm just waiting for John Good to make a drum out of marble, granite, cowdung, led or cactus.

Personally, I'm waiting for one made of a bunch of old iPhones glued together.
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Didn't they make a concrete snare or something? Too much 420 going on out there.
 
mpthomson said:
You'll be able to find a single post where I said that, then?
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How about the first sentence from post #80?
mpthomson said:
No, bell brass is bronze.
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If you really knew that brass isnt bronze, we wouldnt have had to go down this path. You would also have noticed earlier that I said both bell brass and bell bronze are terms.
MrInsanePolack said:
The last two are really just terms. Yes they make bells out of bronze and brass, but it's still just a formulation of bronze or brass. It's like saying drum wood, car metal, sidewalk concrete.
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Thanks for the pointless argument.
 
MrInsanePolack said:
How about the first sentence from post #80?
That still stands. What is referred to as bell brass is actually cast bronze. 'Bell brass' doesn't exist as a term outside of drum making.
If you really knew that brass isnt bronze, we wouldnt have had to go down this path. You would also have noticed earlier that I said both bell brass and bell bronze are terms.
Bell brass is a marketing term for bronze, you've simply misunderstood what I've said.
Thanks for the pointless argument.
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singleflammedmill said:
mpthomson is right Bell Brass is Bronze.
As for MrInsanePolack, he choose is username really well!

Bell Brass Trio
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Again, brass cannot be bronze and bronze cannot be brass. They are alloys of copper.

If Tama built a snare out of maple and called it oak are we gonna call it oak because they did or maple because it is correct?
 
MrInsanePolack said:
No. Brass can never be bronze, and bronze can never be brass. They are two different formulations made out of copper. Brass is copper and aluminium. Bronze is copper and tin. You can't add anything to brass to get bronze. Nor can you add anything to bronze to get brass. You cant remove anything from brass to get bronze. Nor can you remove anything from bronze to get brass. You must add to copper to get either.

Just like steel is an alloy of iron, brass and bronze are both alloys of copper. That's it, their only connection to each other, no matter how bad you want to believe otherwise.
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What if you mix copper aluminum AND tin? Not trying to be smart lol, guess I will google

Edit: brass is copper and zinc
 
TJK said:
What if you mix copper aluminum AND tin? Not trying to be smart lol, guess I will google

Edit: brass is copper and zinc
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You are correct, zinc not aluminium. I hadn't had coffee yet. No excuse, but I wasnt awake.

If you mix copper, aluminium, and tin, it's an alloy of whatever the base element is. Its going to vary also in its properties as you adjust the percentages.

It's like making food. Tacos and nachos can have the exact same ingredients and be completely different because the values of the ingredients and the presentation. But one would never call nachos tacos and expect to get away with it. Only with this bell brass/bronze nonsense is that allowed.

This text is white. <--well, is it?

singleflammedmill said:
My Tama Superstar Super Maple kit is a a birch kit despite of his name.
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So do you refer to the kit as being birch or maple and why?
 
MrInsanePolack said:
So do you refer to the kit as being birch or maple and why?
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That kit is made of birch.
Super Maple is the finish name (just like Super Mahogany or Cherry Wine).
So if I'm talking to Tama fans, I'll refer to that kit as my Vintage Superstar Super Maple kit, because they already know that vintage Superstars are birch drums.

Tama Superstar 1980 Super Maple
 
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