MaskingApathy
Member
Cobus tried putting a band together, maybe 10 years ago. He invited anyone who was interested to send videos then he would choose from that. This was the result but it also never went anywhere.
Your perception of YouTube/IG/TikTok drummers
- Thread starter bermuda
- Start date
I think being known by drummers is way different than "public popularity". Dave Grohl, Phil Collins and Buddy Rich have or had "public popularity". Being know by a load of drummers, who are really a minuscule subset of the general population isn't really what I'd consider to be "public popularity".
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
I was just making the point that some incredible musicians who added greatly to our society weren't as good at performing live as they were at other things. If you insist that people can only make a living in music by performing live, you potentially lose a lot!
GretschedHive
Gold Member
I must be watching very different online drummers than others on here, since most of the ones I watch regularly were in bands but left them to concentrate on online teaching, like Mike Johnston or Adam Tuminaro (the Orlando Drummer) or still are in bands, like Gabe Helguera (Drum Beats Online, drummer with I Prevail since 2017)
As for Anika Nilles, she toured with Jeff Beck in 2022, on what might have been his final tour. That's not a low-profile or low-pressure gig, I'd think. Vinnie Colaiuta, Simon Phillips. Narada Michael Walden, Aynsley Dunbar and Terry Bozzio, amongst others, held down that chair. A few of those guys are pretty okay.
As for Anika Nilles, she toured with Jeff Beck in 2022, on what might have been his final tour. That's not a low-profile or low-pressure gig, I'd think. Vinnie Colaiuta, Simon Phillips. Narada Michael Walden, Aynsley Dunbar and Terry Bozzio, amongst others, held down that chair. A few of those guys are pretty okay.
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
There are a lot who have seem to not play with other musicians, seem not to gig.
River19
Senior Member
I think there is some comparison of apples and oranges in this discussion..... IMHO there is a vast difference between an established musician/drummer that also has a YT or Instagram presence (which is smart marketing overall) and someone whose primary and almost solitary presence and resume is nothing but YT or Instagram videos.
I agree with @River19 - it's mostly an apples to oranges comparison, though drums are involved in both. The content creator gets total control of the project, doesn't split revenue, has no personnel or scheduling conflicts, has no constraints with a recording studio and chooses the target audience and type of music. The musician who plays out or works in studio likely compromises all of those. The content creator may also be somewhat introverted or anxious in public.
For the content creator, total control probably outweighs the perceived stimulation of public performing. There is no right or wrong - I like vanilla ice cream, you like chocolate.
In my opinion, performance and content creation seem like two divergent paths to satisfaction and/or notoriety. I don't think that one must lead to the other or some single pinnacle though we both share the same instrument.
For the content creator, total control probably outweighs the perceived stimulation of public performing. There is no right or wrong - I like vanilla ice cream, you like chocolate.
In my opinion, performance and content creation seem like two divergent paths to satisfaction and/or notoriety. I don't think that one must lead to the other or some single pinnacle though we both share the same instrument.
doggyd69b
Gold Member
It depends on what you want to accomplish, but you can get a $200 camera with a wide angle lens built in, a couple of $50 dollar lights and an electronic kit and be able to record very decent videos.
You could use the free version of Steven Slate drums or buy GGD or EZDrummer or even just use the module's built in sounds, you can get those to sound decent enough when combined with other tracks.
The point being, you don't need to spend thousands of dollars (or British Pounds) to record a very professional looking (and sounding) video, you also don't need multiple cameras, but of course is nice if you have at least 3 angles (which you can very easily make to look like 6 camera with some very simple editing tricks).
You can even (later on) get a jib (so that the camera moves along a track and it looks like you have someone filming you to add more visual interest).
It is possible to use just your phone to create some very good looking films as demonstrated here:
I think with a little know how you can do great things with very little gear.
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
That wasn't my point. My point was you can tell the people who are serious about a Youtube career versus those who are just making videos for fun. The career YouTubers DO have lights, do record good quality audio and do have good production values because grabbing those likes and subscribers is uber competitive.
doggyd69b
Gold Member
I know that wasn't your point, I was replying to what you said previously: "You need a decent recording set up. You need to purchase lights and a half decent camera, then there is the time spent editing." Yes having that helps but it's not a deal breaker if you don't have a super nice setup.
True statements for either a hobbyist or a person doing it for a living.
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
Well you are also living in the past.
I record for other people at home, in my own studio. I work on projects I want to work on and get paid all of my session fee. I often tell them what I think the drums should be playing, although I do collaborate. But people come to me because they want me to sound and play like ME.
Many, many YouTubers are working to the algorithm. They can't do what they want to do because those videos don't attract the likes and subscribers. That's why so many Youtube drummers are playing complex music and displaying a lot of technical chops. That's what attracts the viewers and likes.
Very successful YouTubers;
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
We ended up talking about the bigger YouTubers, the ones who make a living from Youtube and Tik-Tok. They pretty much ALL have great camera work, lighting and sound.
Yeah, you can upload videos with very little, like an iPhone or Zoom recorder, but you won't earn a living from it.
That's been my observation as well, and the gist of this thread. I guess these drummers don't think about being a musician and interacting with other musicians... and I don't understand why they wouldn't consider going all the way with their talent. Do video views really replace the applause of a live crowd?
jda
Diamond Member
even more so than applause (which is after) there's a spontaneity of playing in the moment with other musicians
let's just say if that's their sole course they are missing something
i mean even a studio cloistered (lol).. Hal Blaine had to go out and meet interact with a John Denver audience
"country roads.. take me home...
let's just say if that's their sole course they are missing something
i mean even a studio cloistered (lol).. Hal Blaine had to go out and meet interact with a John Denver audience
"country roads.. take me home...
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Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
It's hard to get a gig, and the type of showy drumming that garners 'likes' doesn't get you most gigs. Mid-budget tours are bus tours, I dunno, if I can earn a living staying at home I prefer to do that. When I was 25 sure I'd be after every bus tour with a real band I could get an audition for.
Astute observation. Could you please clue me in as to how far into the past I am living? Other than you, I seem to have no reference with which to gauge my origin and would like to recalibrate my calendar. Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Best Regards, John
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
Because of the algorithm, anyone who wants to make a living on Youtube HAS to make content that attracts views, comments and subscribers. It was easier in the beginning, but now there are thousands of drummers trying to be popular on Youtube. So the content is quite narrowly focussed and most people follow it. There is also a strict timetable - the advice is to post regularly and consistently (like once a week on the same day every week) and the content has to be consistently engaging and good.
I actually think a lot of working musicians in the real world have more creative freedom and more choice as to what to work on.
I actually think a lot of working musicians in the real world have more creative freedom and more choice as to what to work on.
DrumEatDrum
Platinum Member
My position has evolved quite a bit.
When the whole thing started of people posting drum covers and stuff on YouTube, I didn't get it. It seemed stupid to me,
I thought everyone should do it the way I and everyone else did, you go out and play dingy bars on a Tuesday night and work your way up the food chain or rehearsing, getting into better bands, playing better shows, getting the Saturday night at 10 pm slot.
Years later, I am now of the mind, yeah but most of those dingy bars don't have bands anymore. Half the clubs I used to play at closed down.
Others have become very difficult to attend, as parking and such is a nightmare. Drink prices are insane. It's expensive to go see a local band these days.
So many people in the public at large think going to see a DJ counts as going to see a live band.
Many clubs that used to have live bands now just have DJs or karaoke. It's cheaper, easier, and in many cases, brings in more bodies.
And even when I was playing dingy bars and working up to clubs in the '90s, I didn't have nearly the opportunities to gig as drummers did in the 50s/60s, etc. If you read Hal Blain's autobiography, Mick Feetwood's autobiography, or any autobiography of any musician up and coming in the 50s/60s or even 70s eras, there were so many more clubs and bars to play at where the bands actually got paid. Grace Slick said in her autobiography part of why she joined her 1st band was she could make more money playing clubs than she could at her day job! Now, good luck with that!
With fewer and fewer places for young musicians to gain real-world experience, why not post online?
When the whole thing started of people posting drum covers and stuff on YouTube, I didn't get it. It seemed stupid to me,
I thought everyone should do it the way I and everyone else did, you go out and play dingy bars on a Tuesday night and work your way up the food chain or rehearsing, getting into better bands, playing better shows, getting the Saturday night at 10 pm slot.
Years later, I am now of the mind, yeah but most of those dingy bars don't have bands anymore. Half the clubs I used to play at closed down.
Others have become very difficult to attend, as parking and such is a nightmare. Drink prices are insane. It's expensive to go see a local band these days.
So many people in the public at large think going to see a DJ counts as going to see a live band.
Many clubs that used to have live bands now just have DJs or karaoke. It's cheaper, easier, and in many cases, brings in more bodies.
And even when I was playing dingy bars and working up to clubs in the '90s, I didn't have nearly the opportunities to gig as drummers did in the 50s/60s, etc. If you read Hal Blain's autobiography, Mick Feetwood's autobiography, or any autobiography of any musician up and coming in the 50s/60s or even 70s eras, there were so many more clubs and bars to play at where the bands actually got paid. Grace Slick said in her autobiography part of why she joined her 1st band was she could make more money playing clubs than she could at her day job! Now, good luck with that!
With fewer and fewer places for young musicians to gain real-world experience, why not post online?
River19
Senior Member
As a side note, the YT algorithm evolves and changes at their behest in many cases without much warning or clue as to where it is heading.
What has "worked" on YT up to now will need to evolve as well as they have now put a much larger emphasis on longer format and actual watch time vs. just views and subscribers which really don't mean much to YT itself who is in the business of getting ads in front of as many eyes as possible.
The vast bulk of YT videos make very little money in ad sharing revenue once you even reach the monetization level. So the whole "I sit at home and make YT videos and that alone pays my bills" is becoming more and more of a myth. Most people making money leveraging the platform are doing so via Patreon subscribers and ancillary course sales, merchandise sales and through business opportunities generated through the exposure of YT and related platforms.
So from a "YT Drummer" perspective......if all someone is doing is making relatively short videos of chop dropping to generate clicks and views, they will soon be doing so only for ego points and exposure to the niche of folks who consume that stuff regularly. But they need to parlay that into a real gig, side hustle, business etc. to truly monetize their effort.
Sure there are ways in the short term to "game" the YT system by taking a bunch of your short videos of drum covers where they overplay the crap out of an original track and make a longer format "compilation" but that most likely won't garner the watch time to get them paid.
What has "worked" on YT up to now will need to evolve as well as they have now put a much larger emphasis on longer format and actual watch time vs. just views and subscribers which really don't mean much to YT itself who is in the business of getting ads in front of as many eyes as possible.
The vast bulk of YT videos make very little money in ad sharing revenue once you even reach the monetization level. So the whole "I sit at home and make YT videos and that alone pays my bills" is becoming more and more of a myth. Most people making money leveraging the platform are doing so via Patreon subscribers and ancillary course sales, merchandise sales and through business opportunities generated through the exposure of YT and related platforms.
So from a "YT Drummer" perspective......if all someone is doing is making relatively short videos of chop dropping to generate clicks and views, they will soon be doing so only for ego points and exposure to the niche of folks who consume that stuff regularly. But they need to parlay that into a real gig, side hustle, business etc. to truly monetize their effort.
Sure there are ways in the short term to "game" the YT system by taking a bunch of your short videos of drum covers where they overplay the crap out of an original track and make a longer format "compilation" but that most likely won't garner the watch time to get them paid.