Your perception of YouTube/IG/TikTok drummers

1) I didn't mention Youtube having people reviewing content.
2) I didn't suggest the 'system' would block content with 'fake' likes. I said if you want to attract Ludwig, Roland, Vic Firth etc to advertise on your channel, or offer you endorsements, or send you gear to play or review, sure they ARE going to look at your subscribers (200,000) and your likes (200) and work out your have bought your subscribers.
I work with companies that watch Youtube and Instagram for up and coming talent. My WHOLE point was that at the end of the day you can't cheat the system, - the system being humans who choose influencers and online stars to support financially or with endorsements.
 
I'll also toss in another wrinkle to the YT income stability myth.......

If you are posting drum covers or reaction videos to recorded copyrighted music etc. your videos will immediately be tagged with a content ID via YT's AI tech and it will immediately open a "ticket" for lack of better word that goes directly to the Copyright owner for review over control over the content, ad stream and any possible revenue. Clearly this is a good thing to protect the original artists and/or copyright holder.

Many copyright holders make it very hard for YT "fair use" videos to be monetized and even if the various appeals etc. are won, there will be delays in any revenue payment measured in months. That being said, some artists and copyright holders are very good about people using their material in educational context. However I'm not so sure a drum cover in the typical "look at me" style has a high probability of being considered fair use......all in all, the point is, there is red tape and BS involved with capturing any type of $ on the back end from these types of vids.
 
Yes, I am effectively posting covers in my videos, even though I played on the original record.
All my videos get a copyright strike, they are still available to watch, but any income they accrue goes to the artist (not the drummer). I have earned zero from my videos on Youtube, one of which has 44,000 views.
 
Great topic, Bermuda. FWIW, here's my two cents....

bermuda said:
With literally just a few well-known exceptions, drummers play in bands. If YT drummers aren't playing in a band yet are able to monetize their videos... do you consider that to be a valid career?
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It's not my cup of tea, but it's absolutely valid. If someone is making money doing something they enjoy, then to me it's valid.
bermuda said:
If there was some money involved, would you be satisfied not playing with other musicians in a live setting?
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Probably not. But I'd still be playing drums for money, so it's definitely better than most of the alternatives.
bermuda said:
Would being known as a "YouTube Drummer" be okay with you, or is there a lack of credibility as a musician associated with the term?
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I know I just said it's valid, and that I'd do it in a pinch, but I don't think I'd like to be known as a "YouTube Drummer", for precisely the reason you mentioned. I can think of very few YouTube drummers that I would actually call to cover a gig for me.
bermuda said:
Is that stigma disappearing? (Read: is being an "influencer" a legit thing when it comes to 'art'?)
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I do think it's disappearing though. There are plenty of solo artists out there, so I think you can absolutely be an "artist" online without being an "influencer".
bermuda said:
Which YT Drummers have transitioned into a live career?
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I have no idea.
bermuda said:
Are there well-known drummers who have transitioned to an exclusive online presence?
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Not that I know of. I do know a guy back home in Pittsburgh who seems to have transitioned to a mostly online presence, but I do still see him doing the occasional gig.
 
opentune said:
“valid career” is a loaded description. If you make an artless or unoriginal TV show and monetize it how is that any different than doing the same on YouTube?
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That's why I put that there. I wondered about the consensus of how someone makes money. If you hit a drum, and someone sees or hears it, and you make money, does the drumming scenario matter?

Certainly it matters (or doesn't) to the person with the drum and the money. My question was about how that's perceived by those who are out there playing in bands or teaching in person. Basically, interacting directly with people, not a camera.
 
River19 said:
Many copyright holders make it very hard for YT "fair use" videos to be monetized...
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As they should. Fair use doesn't mean monetizing the content without paying the appropriate fees. If the YT cover is just a verse or chorus of a song to demonstrate the drum part, that would (probably) be considered fair use. But using the entire song, even with a new drum part layered over it, should include payments for its use, especially when the recording generates any revenue. If the publisher wants to waive that, that's cool (and probably unusual.) But people can't simply give away copyrighted content and claim fair use.

Parody is essentially fair use for morning DJs to make up wacky excerpts of hit songs for broadcast. But the instant a parody is made available for sale... guess what.
 
bermuda said:
Parody is essentially fair use for morning DJs to make up wacky excerpts of hit songs for broadcast. But the instant a parody is made available for sale... guess what.
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Are you sure? I remember one of the distinctions taught in IP law was copyright differences between jurisdictions. The USA has (had?) an exemption from infringement for parody, whereas Canada has no such exemption. Has the law changed in the USA in the last decade or so?
 
beatdat said:
Are you sure? I remember one of the distinctions taught in IP law was copyright differences between jurisdictions. The USA has (had?) an exemption from infringement for parody, whereas Canada has no such exemption. Has the law changed in the USA in the last decade or so?
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I can't speak for other countries, but in the US, parody is not always fair use. If it was, Al would be twice as rich!
 
Chris Whitten said:
1) I didn't mention Youtube having people reviewing content.
2) I didn't suggest the 'system' would block content with 'fake' likes. I said if you want to attract Ludwig, Roland, Vic Firth etc to advertise on your channel, or offer you endorsements, or send you gear to play or review, sure they ARE going to look at your subscribers (200,000) and your likes (200) and work out your have bought your subscribers.
I work with companies that watch Youtube and Instagram for up and coming talent. My WHOLE point was that at the end of the day you can't cheat the system, - the system being humans who choose influencers and online stars to support financially or with endorsements.
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To give you an example of one of those cases... There was this guy Theo or something like that, his channel started with basically lies about how to get free software and a bunch of false claims. He somehow managed to get lots of views on that, eventually he changed his tune and started posting serious content with things that were actually true. He is now much more successful and has all kinds of sponsorships from real companies. Yes I understand that when it comes to music specifically, you can't fake your way to success, but in other areas you can and a lot of people have.
 
But, none of the Youtube drummers we are talking about in this thread.
Why don't you try it?
The last thing I would do after spending a few days making a video unpaid, is PAY for the views.
 
bermuda said:
. My question was about how that's perceived by those who are out there playing in bands or teaching in person. Basically, interacting directly with people, not a camera.
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Good point, live we get one take to get it right, who knows how many takes youtube drummer makes before he saves the clip and posts it?
 
If they can do it once, that still counts. And if it's on video it can be seen over and over. If it was live and no good recordings were done, it's just lore.
Without pics.....

Should there be limits on the development of drumming performances?!
 
doggyd69b said:
YouTube doesn't have actual people reviewing the content it is all reviewed by an algorithm so if someone is fulfilling the criteria (X amount of views) they will get paid, advertisers don't pay youtubers directly they pay YouTube. Yes if the content is mediocre the channel is going nowhere fast, but in the meantime it could still generate some revenue. Some people have a whole business just on reacting to some other people's music for example Elizabeth Zharoff "The Charismatic Voice" a whole shop of T-shirts and other channel related items and climbing. at 1.57 million subscribers and millions of people watching her average content really doesn't need to be great.

And before you challenge my answer yes people will review some videos that may trigger certain flags but usually not, the system will block them automatically. Imagine how many people they would need to review all the millions of videos that get uploaded daily?
Same with NSA and other agencies that "spy on Americans" they don't have the people or the time to do that...
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The algorithm will punish you if you buy views
 
bermuda said:
That's why I put that there. I wondered about the consensus of how someone makes money. If you hit a drum, and someone sees or hears it, and you make money, does the drumming scenario matter?

Certainly it matters (or doesn't) to the person with the drum and the money. My question was about how that's perceived by those who are out there playing in bands or teaching in person. Basically, interacting directly with people, not a camera.
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Yes it’s an interesting topic. personally I perceive YouTube drummers at a rank less than a live playing drummer, or teachers, even if the latter say makes less money. It’s not they have less talent or anything, it’s just a job that appeals less to me. how Somebody makes money is not for me to judge, only in the context of whether I would do it or not For a living.For the record I do neither for a living so take my input with a grain of salt.
 
Seafroggys said:
Adam Neely recently put out a video about how he has 1.8 million subscribers.....and none of that actually matters. Everybody should definitely watch it.

Now with that being said, here's my take on it. Short answer: Yes. It counts. They're making music, they're making money (kinda). It's valid. But the thing is, is that it's kind of a side show. Non-musicians watch these online-only drumming "influencer" types and say "Neato!" and move on with their lives. But being a drummer in a band that the same person connects with. Sure, maybe that person isn't paying attention to the drummer, but there's a deeper connection with the music. If I'm laying down sick grooves at a Salsa Dance Party that people are dancing to and having a good time with, that's more rewarding than if someone is just doomscrolling, sees my online drum video, and goes "neat." Even if they don't know my name in the former.

I bet you if you asked all these influencers if they could choose between youtube/social media and playing music in a band in a live/studio setting, almost all of them will pick the latter. Social Media feels so soulless and impersonal, especially when you do it for longer. 500 people attending your concert is worth infinitely more than 500 views on your youtube video.

EDIT: Youtube is definitely a valid and valuable stepping stone to playing live. Emmanuel Caplette, my favorite 21st century drummer, started on youtube. She was pretty active with her videos from like 2009-2011. Then she started gigging and getting popular and asked for, and she posts like once a year now. That's the case for others, like Anikka Niles, etc. If YouTube/Social Media was that lucrative, either financially or spiritually, why would they switch? Someone somewhere once said that the frequency that YouTube musicians post is inversely correlated to how often they work IRL. Musicians who gig and record don't have time for YouTube videos. I have barely put up any videos of note in the past year, because I played 98 gigs last year. I didn't have time for that.
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I'm not so sure.
I think younger drummers today just see the internet as another type of gig.
They're already playing out, but it doesn't take that long to make a YT or a TikTok video. It's just a side hack to them...plus, its a way to "perform" during those times between bands.
That's how I see it, anyway.
Its ok if you don't agree.
 
Elvis said:
I'm not so sure.
I think younger drummers today just see the internet as another type of gig.
They're already playing out, but it doesn't take that long to make a YT or a TikTok video. It's just a side hack to them...plus, its a way to "perform" during those times between bands.
That's how I see it, anyway.
Its ok if you don't agree.
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We're talking about two different groups of people.

*I* post drum videos on my youtube video. I have hundreds on there. When I don't gig a lot, I tend to post more videos. That's the point I'm making. If I'm gigging, I don't have time to make youtube videos. I'm playing live and making way more money than I would on social media.
 
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