Hollywood Jim
Platinum Member
Try some Adoro sticks. They provide a nice soft pop on the snare drum. And they feel fairly natural.
Adoro Sticks
Adoro Sticks
Quiet gigs but with a good feel - which 'stick'?
- Thread starter bermuda
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Spreggy
Silver Member
There should be, but I don't think there is, a stick answer for this. My answer for this, which I have to use here and there, is bandanas. In a ringy venue one will do to take the edge off. But for your sitch I would fold one once and lay it across the snare, then one or two unfolded on top. You still get all your dynamic levels, just much quieter.
Drummerrobin
Member
For lower volume rock/pop, I typically like to do everything I can to lower the volume and yet still allow myself to play a nice naturally with a nice solid backbeat. I use quieter cymbals (smaller crashes in particular), long taper sticks (the Peter Erskine Big Band Sticks are brilliant if you want a stick that feels pretty chunky in the hand but is also easy to play quietly with) and snare drum dampening (the BFSD Quesadilla is often my go to for dramatic volume reduction). All of this means I can still play with some "oomph" and, crucially for the way I like to play, I can still play rimshots on the snare without worrying about the volume being too much. I know some people might disagree with me on this but I really do much prefer playing rimshots for most pop and rock music - it just doesn't sound right without them to my ears. So in most quieter pop/rock situations involving a PA system, I'd rather find a way of dramatically reducing my rimshot volume than have to leave them out altogether and I find the Quesadilla works wonders for this.
If after all that I'm still too loud, then I will potentially use rods but I'm very fussy about the type of rods I use as the majority of rods out there don't sound good on cymbals imo. I only use rods that have thicker dowels such as the Vater Splashstick Rock rods as it's the only way to get enough definition on the cymbals. I also cover the exposed rods with gaffer tape up to almost the very top, so only the very tip is showing which I find further assists with definition, as well as durability. There's a piano bar pop/rock music request type gig I regularly do and I find this solution is perfect for that gig. It means I can really get stuck into the music without fear of overwhelming the other instruments (2 electric pianos and bass guitar). If I choose, I can lay into the crashes, play rimshots and generally have a lot of energy, and I'm not being forced to phone anything in. I find even the rebound is pretty good with the rods taped at the top, though I probably wouldn't want to play any snare etudes with them!
Hope that's all of some kind of help! Of course, if all else fails I do just play less hard. But I do think there is something to be said about that being somewhat of a last resort if you're dealing with music that was never intended on being played at a low volume in the first place. In general, I like to do whatever I can to maintain as much of the feel of the full volume as possible when playing at a lower volume.
If after all that I'm still too loud, then I will potentially use rods but I'm very fussy about the type of rods I use as the majority of rods out there don't sound good on cymbals imo. I only use rods that have thicker dowels such as the Vater Splashstick Rock rods as it's the only way to get enough definition on the cymbals. I also cover the exposed rods with gaffer tape up to almost the very top, so only the very tip is showing which I find further assists with definition, as well as durability. There's a piano bar pop/rock music request type gig I regularly do and I find this solution is perfect for that gig. It means I can really get stuck into the music without fear of overwhelming the other instruments (2 electric pianos and bass guitar). If I choose, I can lay into the crashes, play rimshots and generally have a lot of energy, and I'm not being forced to phone anything in. I find even the rebound is pretty good with the rods taped at the top, though I probably wouldn't want to play any snare etudes with them!
Hope that's all of some kind of help! Of course, if all else fails I do just play less hard. But I do think there is something to be said about that being somewhat of a last resort if you're dealing with music that was never intended on being played at a low volume in the first place. In general, I like to do whatever I can to maintain as much of the feel of the full volume as possible when playing at a lower volume.
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ottog1979
Senior Member
Noticeably lighter than wood. Being bamboo they are more flexible than wood. Kind of spongy feeling. But you get used to it. I use them for anything needing really light volume but where I still want to use sticks.
And again to reiterate - I never assumed that you actually needed much - or any - help with this. I just thought it was cool that you offered up the situation as a topic for conversation. Because I would assume that many folks run into the same sort of dilemma quite often. (Thus my 2 cents being added)
Thanks, and playing a bit quieter is normally not a challenge for me. But this gig was more extreme than any I've done before.
Neal Pert
Silver Member
I've had to do a LOT of very quiet gigs over the year. As a result I've learned to play incredibly quiet with sticks and fingers and brushes. I've used those 10" PSTX cymbals as crashes. I've used a Cajon snare with a plastic brush. I've used a cardboard box as a snare. REALLy thin cymbals. Hip Gig Jr bass drum.
I don't think the sticks are the thing. It's mostly in the hands and in the instrument.
I don't think the sticks are the thing. It's mostly in the hands and in the instrument.
BobC
Silver Member
I'd just use Promark 5A nylon tip and be aware of volume.
I have never understood why bands book rooms where management objects to their normal volume, even if its reasonable by most people's standards. I have run into this problem occasionally, when we played rooms that normally didn't feature full bands. The management was used to having a single or duo, then when a full band played, it was automatically too loud. There's a certain volume a band has to play to get the music across. You try to be professional and give the manager what he or she wants in good faith, but I've seen situations where bands have had to cut the night short, because they couldn't make management happy no matter what they did. Sometimes, it's the only course of action; cut a $$ deal and go home.
I have never understood why bands book rooms where management objects to their normal volume, even if its reasonable by most people's standards. I have run into this problem occasionally, when we played rooms that normally didn't feature full bands. The management was used to having a single or duo, then when a full band played, it was automatically too loud. There's a certain volume a band has to play to get the music across. You try to be professional and give the manager what he or she wants in good faith, but I've seen situations where bands have had to cut the night short, because they couldn't make management happy no matter what they did. Sometimes, it's the only course of action; cut a $$ deal and go home.
Yeah, this should not have been a full-band gig, although I'm not sure they could pull it off without drums. The songs wouldn't be the same, so what would be the point anyway?
This wasn't a venue, or a bar, or even a typical restaurant where a jazz trio might play. It was literally an old burger joint. Far be it from me to suggest who should or shouldn't have live music if they want, but the bandleader should also be realistic about when we can or cannot meet the volume requirements, and turn down such gigs.
Again, this is the first time this extreme volume issue has happened to me.
Ya know, fingers/hands would actually have worked from a volume perspective and been much more tactile for me, although cymbals would be an issue. I like cymbals.
Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
Yeah, the AJ1 have a great feel and balance. The taper and small bead definitely lightens the stick up.
I like 7As these days but these won't have enough rebound for Jon.
BobC
Silver Member
I have been sorely tempted to say to the manager, "Why did you book a full blown rock 'n roll band if volume is such an issue?"
I already knew the answer; the manager was inexperienced and had no idea what he/she was doing. I've run into that scenario quite a few times, like the local winery (that went out of business). They turned the music booking over to a clueless kid who screwed everything up. He didn't last a year, and they reassigned him elsewhere.
Jon, I agree that the leader should have been more realistic, unless he's so desperate he'll take any gig, regardless of volume problems.
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The AJ5 is my go-to quietish stick, I actually use it on most local gigs. But there was no way I could use them in this place. From a volume standpoint the brush-sticks were fine, but trying to move them quickly and with restraint, coupled with the the floppy action, just wasn't working.
Here's my order of preference for a resolution:
1) Find sticks that will allow me to play fairly normally, restrict the volume as needed, and pull a decent sound from the drums.
2) Don't accept that gig again until we can play outside instead of inside.
3) Change the band's approach on the songs to allow for modified (or no) drums, although that's not really an option. It would be like asking Judas Priest to play unplugged and acoustic. It might be novel, but it's just not them.
Hollywood Jim
Platinum Member
In my opinion, if you want to play fast, accurate and with your normal feel; you will need to dampen the drums in some way. There are several ways to do it.
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Yeah, although he has confidence in all of us to manage our volume, and normally that's not a problem. We're used to quiet gigs, but this was truly a different, rather extreme situation. And yes, I let him know very clearly both last night and again today what an extremely difficult gig it was for an acoustic kit trying to play our songs faithfully.
Here's a Google view of the place, it's not Chinese anymore, but clearly was a burger place at some point. The dining space is approx 1/3 of the floorplan, so it's really small inside and the band took up about 20% of that. I've played a few similar smallish places (anyone played the Doll Hut in Anaheim?!), but they were designed for music where volume wasn't so critical.
It's strictly the Flix response & action, nothing to do with the drums. The volume was fine, but making that work was a real struggle and I know the feel suffered on the uptempo songs.
BobC
Silver Member
I can relate. The Kootz played an ice cream parlor/burger and hot dog place years ago for some weird reason. We set up in between the booths, which were attached to the floor. It was ludicrous, really. The owner was not used to having bands at all and tried to cut us off after the first set, because he was disappointed with the turnout. We played a second set, then cut a deal and got the hell out of there.
Caz
Senior Member
Hey do you have any video examples of the cajon with the plastic brush please? I understand people turning down these gigs but I actually like them, it’s a good challenge exploring rhythm at extremely low dynamics. At Trinity Laban most of the music rooms are tiny and very boomy so the combo leaders would usually start with setting an appropriate dynamic for the space. We learned to play really quietly with sticks, and also use brushes, mallets, hands etc. After college the one thing I used to draw a line at was cajon - as I felt like that’s just a different instrument. I’ve changed on that recently though, am playing cajon on a function in a couple of weeks and looking forward to figuring that out.
Neal Pert
Silver Member
I don't have any video of myself doing it. But what I've done, instead of getting a regular cajon, is to get a laptop cajon. I have done a few rehearsals and one gig so far with it and it works great. I set it on top of a snare drum on a stand and it's at a reasonable height and I don't have to kill my back by lurching forward like on a normal cajon. And the one with a pickup allows you to run in through a PA or an amp if the gig gets louder. Running it through an amp also lets you play the thing with your fingers instead of the normal full hand technique. I use these cajon brushes which I bought years ago when I need them. I've used it with a Hip Gig Jr bass drum and it's been very nice.
I've also thought of getting one of those wood drum heads so I can skip the cajon altogether.
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Anon La Ply
Diamond Member
I like #1. Hard when the AJ5s are too loud.
When I took my rusty and ham-fisted rock background into a lounge band, I had to go all out to keep the volume down - fluffy BD beater, small drums, small cymbals and bamboo sticks.
Bamboo sticks take a lot of getting used to and they pull a tinnier tone than maples, and I doubt they would have the amount of response you'd need to play some of those tunes.