bandmates *facepalm*

jaykaydrums

jaykaydrums

Silver Member
*RANT*

so, ive joined a band, and all of the members bar me have never gigged before. theyre nice guys, but VERY inexperienced. theyve justt bought a new mixer between them (behringer XR18), and i said i'd help them set it up properly as ive got live sound experience.


so i do, and what do they go and do? mess with every setting possible because its either "not giving them a good sound" (theyre running amp sim pedals into the mixer which they havent got the hang of tweaking properly yet), or "its not working right" ( it works fine when they dont all try to connect to it with their various old phones and tablets and mess with the mixer constantly).

its gotten to the point where the main guitarist (who apparently has a home studio), plugged his expensive fractal audio amp modeller pedal into the mixer, strummed a bit, looked at it, and wondered why his guitar was super quiet........told him he needed some gain on the channel to get it coming through the speakers.......his reply? "you dont need gain i dont think, its not a microphone so it should just work". so i calmly had to explain to him that everything that goes into the mixer, whether it be his guitar pedal, a bass amp sim pedal, a microphone or even a music player, needs a gain structure on it......you could physically see the cogs turning in his head trying to process this info.

the bassist admits hes a jack of all trades, master of none, he has a music stand in front of him with a phone on it with the notation on, and to swap pages on his phone he actually stops playing, scrolls, then rejoins in a bar later.

the male singer/rhythm guitarist, again, good guy to know and keen, but very inexperienced, cant get the vocal structure right for some songs, and get the timings all wrong so comes in either a bar or two too early, or misses it completely and throws us all off, or we start a song at the right speed ( im using a metronome to dictate the tempo from the original songs), and he swears theyre either too fast or too slow, and seems a bit touchy when his timings are told to be inaccurate.

and the female singer is good at songs she knows, but the songs she knows and suggests are obscure pop songs ( when the rest of the band want to be more rock based) like we suggest "since you been gone" by rainbow, she says shes never heard of the song or them, then suggests a song called "shoot him down" by a singer called alice francis, to which the rest of us reply we've never heard of her or the song (which we hadnt), and she looks very put out by the fact we dont know it when apprently its "very well known".


we've been rehearsing/practicing since august/september, and so far getting absolutely nowhere.


i have a lot of patience for folk, specially musicians who need to earn their gigging badges, but even though they say they want to gig, the progress towards that goal has been almost non-existant :/

*end rant*
 
drumnut87 said:
the bassist admits hes a jack of all trades, master of none, he has a music stand in front of him with a phone on it with the notation on, and to swap pages on his phone he actually stops playing, scrolls, then rejoins in a bar later.
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LLLOOOLLL ! ! ! ! !

Thanks. Coffee everywhere.

and the female singer is good at songs she knows, but the songs she knows and suggests are obscure pop songs ( when the rest of the band want to be more rock based) like we suggest "since you been gone" by rainbow, she says shes never heard of the song or them, then suggests a song called "shoot him down" by a singer called alice francis, to which the rest of us reply we've never heard of her or the song (which we hadnt), and she looks very put out by the fact we dont know it when apprently its "very well known".
Click to expand...

Admittedly she sounds like me in my first band. Even though we were a cover band I had a specific sound I wanted the band to be known for - that part I was right about - but I had a tendency to not be flexible or compromising with the other band members. Although it served the band well, it was selfish.
 
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drumnut87 said:
*RANT*

so, ive joined a band, and all of the members bar me have never gigged before. theyre nice guys, but VERY inexperienced. theyve justt bought a new mixer between them (behringer XR18), and i said i'd help them set it up properly as ive got live sound experience.


so i do, and what do they go and do? mess with every setting possible because its either "not giving them a good sound" (theyre running amp sim pedals into the mixer which they havent got the hang of tweaking properly yet), or "its not working right" ( it works fine when they dont all try to connect to it with their various old phones and tablets and mess with the mixer constantly).

its gotten to the point where the main guitarist (who apparently has a home studio), plugged his expensive fractal audio amp modeller pedal into the mixer, strummed a bit, looked at it, and wondered why his guitar was super quiet........told him he needed some gain on the channel to get it coming through the speakers.......his reply? "you dont need gain i dont think, its not a microphone so it should just work". so i calmly had to explain to him that everything that goes into the mixer, whether it be his guitar pedal, a bass amp sim pedal, a microphone or even a music player, needs a gain structure on it......you could physically see the cogs turning in his head trying to process this info.

the bassist admits hes a jack of all trades, master of none, he has a music stand in front of him with a phone on it with the notation on, and to swap pages on his phone he actually stops playing, scrolls, then rejoins in a bar later.

the male singer/rhythm guitarist, again, good guy to know and keen, but very inexperienced, cant get the vocal structure right for some songs, and get the timings all wrong so comes in either a bar or two too early, or misses it completely and throws us all off, or we start a song at the right speed ( im using a metronome to dictate the tempo from the original songs), and he swears theyre either too fast or too slow, and seems a bit touchy when his timings are told to be inaccurate.

and the female singer is good at songs she knows, but the songs she knows and suggests are obscure pop songs ( when the rest of the band want to be more rock based) like we suggest "since you been gone" by rainbow, she says shes never heard of the song or them, then suggests a song called "shoot him down" by a singer called alice francis, to which the rest of us reply we've never heard of her or the song (which we hadnt), and she looks very put out by the fact we dont know it when apprently its "very well known".


we've been rehearsing/practicing since august/september, and so far getting absolutely nowhere.


i have a lot of patience for folk, specially musicians who need to earn their gigging badges, but even though they say they want to gig, the progress towards that goal has been almost non-existant :/

*end rant*
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Maybe, if you intend on being a cover band, you could start by agreeing to say…five songs that every member has to have in constant rotation on their preferred device until the next rehearsal, then at the next rehearsal practice only those 5 songs and no messing around with any other thing (yes guitar player that means stop noodling all the incomplete songs you know). If you don’t see significant progress doing this, you need to move on. If they can’t follow something that simple you will be having a bad time and it will get old very fast. And no messing with the mixer at all only one person can mix. Since you have been at it for this long and as stated by you getting nowhere, you have nothing to lose trying this.
 
man...the band director in me is freaking out with ideas...

one thing you could try to do is convince them to learn a basic "jam" song to just work on basics like timing, listening, group interaction. Something simple like Louie Louie, would work. They need to work on big picture things like that, as well as working on songs for the set list. Start every rehearsal with that song.

and as @doggyd69b mentioned, only work on a small amount of songs - that are not super challenging from a technical standpoint - that help you guys get reps. Right now, those guys all just need reps.

and don't be afraid to work on specific sections of the songs....like, don't just go from beginning to end every time you play. Specifically target verses/choruses/bridges etc, and isolate those short phrases.

and sometimes, just isolate out instruments. Maybe plan a rehearsal where it is just you and the bass player; or you and the guitar players...my currnet groups still do stuff like this becasue it allows us to identify things to tighten up. My surf punk band also does vocals only practices, but we do 4 part harmonies a lot, so we need it. In those practices, I play drums, and we all sing. No other instruments (our keyboard player gives pitches when we start as well)

also. if you are doing covers, take time to listen to the song over the PA right before you try it. My thrash band will even play along to cover songs as we are first learning. Me and the other string jockeys play with amps off, and the drummer plays on his legs/air drums.

anything you can do to get the newer people looking at music/playing in different, more analytical ways will get them the experience they lack right now

lastly...actually book a show about 6 months out. This will make the reality of being serious a real thing. My country band did that when we first got together years ago. In fact, the leader had the show booked before he got us together. That made it stick out on the radar screen for getting "homework" done
 
Been there.....................done that. Too many times.
Currently I tell new startup bands "I'd love to play drums for you. Rehearse the songs without me and then when you have learned the songs really well, give me a call." "I can send to a drum track for your songs so you can rehearse the songs with the drums".

.
 
I have a very simple question: Why did you join a band with a bunch of amateurs? If you don't mind my two cents, it's time to say sayonara, ciao, or auf wiedersehen. Go find some pros.

I don't mean to sound like a snob, and I apologize in advance to anyone who may be offended.

Some amateur musicians are fundamentally very good, like my bro-in-law, who's a very able guitarist and singer who plays with tracks at home. He'd never consider joining a band. He's too reluctant. Too shy. And has zero gigging experience. He won't even go out and jam with other players.

If these people have no experience playing out, it's not your job to whip them into shape. We only have so much time on earth to play drums. Make the most of it.
 
doggyd69b said:
Maybe, if you intend on being a cover band, you could start by agreeing to say…five songs that every member has to have in constant rotation on their preferred device until the next rehearsal, then at the next rehearsal practice only those 5 songs and no messing around with any other thing (yes guitar player that means stop noodling all the incomplete songs you know). If you don’t see significant progress doing this, you need to move on. If they can’t follow something that simple you will be having a bad time and it will get old very fast. And no messing with the mixer at all only one person can mix. Since you have been at it for this long and as stated by you getting nowhere, you have nothing to lose trying this.
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Yup, I like this, but I'd suggest to back it down to three songs, and give everyone 1-2 weeks (and pick easy songs, like "Big Me" by Foo Fighters). Keep everything in the original keys to make learning easier as well. If the band can't handle this, then it's time to move on.
 
It took us about a year to work through those noob problems. We did about 30 gigs over our second year and still our acoustic guitarist sometimes complains the mixer/IEMs/cables/DI was not working when it was actually the battery in his guitar that was dead. Or the lead guitarist claims the same but it turns out he turned his amp all the way down. Or the sound guy complains about the sound and we discover one PA speaker was never turned on. I agree with the advice to tighten your focus to a handful of songs to reduce the number of the variables. Once you've got them down and have naturally worked through "What is gain?"-style problems, your band will be ready for take-off!
 
BGDurham said:
It took us about a year to work through those noob problems. We did about 30 gigs over our second year and still our acoustic guitarist sometimes complains the mixer/IEMs/cables/DI was not working when it was actually the battery in his guitar that was dead. Or the lead guitarist claims the same but it turns out he turned his amp all the way down. Or the sound guy complains about the sound and we discover one PA speaker was never turned on. I agree with the advice to tighten your focus to a handful of songs to reduce the number of the variables. Once you've got them down and have naturally worked through "What is gain?"-style problems, your band will be ready for take-off!
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That is, if your patience holds up and you are willing to invest your time to work with these people. If you have that patience, I admire you, for I certainly don't at this point.
 
I have about 40 years experience playing the drums with hundreds of paid gigs under my belt. Even so, I actually would find it kinda fun backing up a band with a bunch of new guys. It would be kinda like watching little kids open presents on Christmas day.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening with the OP's band. The other musicians are stubborn and don't sound like team players. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered by the lack of skill or experience. It's the attitudes that would bug me. If I were you, I'd give it some time. Keep trying to nudge them in the right direction as you've been doing. It might work out.

Years ago my long-time bassist buddy and I backed up a Country music guitar player singer. The singer/guitarist had never gigged before and was marginally talented. He was a nice guy, so we agreed to play for a couple gigs. The bassist and I had played many gigs together, so we figured we could easily make it work and it would be fun. In the end, we were wrong.

From the very first practice, we found the guitarist/singer to be difficult to work with. Like the folks in the OP's band, he was unwilling to take any suggestions. He had never been in a band before, but knew it all. We finished the gigs but they were terrible and never went back.
 
PorkPieGuy said:
Yup, I like this, but I'd suggest to back it down to three songs, and give everyone 1-2 weeks (and pick easy songs, like "Big Me" by Foo Fighters). Keep everything in the original keys to make learning easier as well. If the band can't handle this, then it's time to move on.
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We had to learn 25 songs in one month. Granted we all knew the songs because we all have listened to them a lot, it is not the same when you have to play them as a band with no reference from the original. The main argument was about measure counts which I had locked down, that is my natural talent, it got to the point where I would say “its 4 measures’’, they played the original and counted. I was never wrong…but we learned them. I think that what pushed us harder was the fact that one of our friends appointed himself as the band manager, and booked us 3 gigs, then we had to know them quick. We all did the have them on rotation thing (I burned each a cd with the playlist), another thing we did was to keep the order the same, that makes it way easier to memorize. We played from Black Eyed Peas to RHCP, to Audioslave, to Foo Fighters and more.
 
A J said:
I have about 40 years experience playing the drums with hundreds of paid gigs under my belt. Even so, I actually would find it kinda fun backing up a band with a bunch of new guys. It would be kinda like watching little kids open presents on Christmas day.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening with the OP's band. The other musicians are stubborn and don't sound like team players. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered by the lack of skill or experience. It's the attitudes that would bug me. If I were you, I'd give it some time. Keep trying to nudge them in the right direction as you've been doing. It might work out.

Years ago my long-time bassist buddy and I backed up a Country music guitar player singer. The singer/guitarist had never gigged before and was marginally talented. He was a nice guy, so we agreed to play for a couple gigs. The bassist and I had played many gigs together, so we figured we could easily make it work and it would be fun. In the end, we were wrong.

From the very first practice, we found the guitarist/singer to be difficult to work with. Like the folks in the OP's band, he was unwilling to take any suggestions. He had never been in a band before, but knew it all. We finished the gigs but they were terrible and never went back.
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And that’s the difference right there . Too many people don’t realize, acknowledge, or accept their limitations or lack of experience. If they did , and gave deference to the more experienced person in the room , wether it be the drummer, guitarist , bassist or singer , things would come together sooner than later or not at all even due to their stubbornness and or arrogance. I’ve dealt with this before .
I will give all the time and help in the world to another member or members that are open to learning from my or another’s experience and willing to put in the work . It’s hard enough to get a project ofc the ground without having to deal with attitudes, ignorance and ego.
Good luck to the OP as he’s the only one who can really gauge it with his own eyes , ears and experience for we are not there to see and hear what’s actually going on .
 
Ha! That reminds me of the band I joined after I'd quit playing for a decade. A friend called to say that the drummer of a band he knew had just walked out in a huff. They they needed someone to step in and he remembered that I'd mentioned that I used to play. That got me playing again.

The guitarist was even rustier than me. He was a Ritchie Blackmore fan. The bassist could not play, but she owned the shop where the band practised. She wanted this to be an alt/punk kind of band. The vocalist could sing in tune but she was only interested in pop.

I didn't want to play drums with them and ended up as the band's keyboardist instead, and my friend took over vocals. That was great fun for a couple of years because I was a beginner too. I think the trick is, when you're playing with rookies, you're free to try all those things you wouldn't dare try with seasoned players.
 
A J said:
I have about 40 years experience playing the drums with hundreds of paid gigs under my belt. Even so, I actually would find it kinda fun backing up a band with a bunch of new guys. It would be kinda like watching little kids open presents on Christmas day.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening with the OP's band. The other musicians are stubborn and don't sound like team players. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered by the lack of skill or experience. It's the attitudes that would bug me. If I were you, I'd give it some time. Keep trying to nudge them in the right direction as you've been doing. It might work out.

Years ago my long-time bassist buddy and I backed up a Country music guitar player singer. The singer/guitarist had never gigged before and was marginally talented. He was a nice guy, so we agreed to play for a couple gigs. The bassist and I had played many gigs together, so we figured we could easily make it work and it would be fun. In the end, we were wrong.

From the very first practice, we found the guitarist/singer to be difficult to work with. Like the folks in the OP's band, he was unwilling to take any suggestions. He had never been in a band before, but knew it all. We finished the gigs but they were terrible and never went back.
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that must be a thing about Country singer/guitarist types...I have dealt with 3 different guys like this when I was doing studio work years ago. Luckily, the studio owner/engineer was able to work diplomatic, and studio magic to get the projects off the ground, but it was rough. Those guys always thought that because they had "a good voice", that they were infallible.
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
that must be a thing about Country singer/guitarist types...I have dealt with 3 different guys like this when I was doing studio work years ago. Luckily, the studio owner/engineer was able to work diplomatic, and studio magic to get the projects off the ground, but it was rough. Those guys always thought that because they had "a good voice", that they were infallible.
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Don't get me started! :D

I've seen plenty of Rock guys like that too. It's a problem common to almost anyone who is a lead singer/guitar player.

Guitarist/Singer: "Here's the song list. These are the songs I like; the same ones I've played over and over again for the past 30 years. I'm not interested in any other songs you might want to do. Just follow me and be sure to keep your volume well below mine."

Yeah... I'm exaggerating a bit; but not that much. I've seen this soooo many times before. Even with my current band. A couple weeks ago they begged me to come up with some songs I'd like to do. I sent them the list and the response went something like this: (And yes, I'm exaggerating again.)"

Guitarist/Singer: "Wow. I'm not familiar with most of those songs. That 4-chord Rock song sounds pretty complicated. Learning that would actually require me to set aside 15 minutes of my own time. I can't see that happening any time soon. How about we just play "Mustang Sally" instead.? It's a lot like that REM song you love so much. Yeah... Let's just do that. Who says guitar player/singers can't be team players?"
 
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