I meant really poor recording (like tapes), where you can hear every note but there is cardboard sound, with zero bass/tone for example.can you think of one? a poor recording that is, that got exposure
or what-would be one- besides home tapes
... or Pete Bestwell maybe Hal Blaine.
I totally agree. I'm still not clear on what the original question was, but it was related to "playing to the mics" then that is absolutely a skill that can and should be mastered if you're going to spend time in a studio. Actually, it's a good skill regardless...You aren't born sounding good in the studio. It is learned, with experience and having made mistakes.
No I never questioned studio personnel about the mics or the eq, but I definitely interrogated them all the time about what I could do to make the drums sound the best they could in the studio.
Spectrum by Billy Cobham is one of my all time favourite drum recordings - the result of a collaboration between a brilliant drummer and an outstanding recording engineer/producer (Ken Scott).
I understand the sound being bad will make you not want to listen to a performance, but how does that affect a perfect groove? I've seen street drummers playing buckets have perfect groove and be in the pocket just fine...A poor recording can keep the greatness of a drummer or perfect groove/pocket from coming through...
No. it was when the drummer is competent before he gets to the micsbut it was related to "playing to the mics"
To expand on the your recordings do not equal your skills... Take for example Alex Van Halen with hot for teacher (or the entire 1984 album for that matter) the sound of the drums was pretty mediocre for what was possible to achieve at the time. (I still love that snare sound though) but you can't deny that Hot For Teacher takes some skill to play and much more skill to write. We cold be listening to it from a bullhorn speaker (the worst kind of speaker followed by phone speakers ) and we would still be able to tell that he is a great drummer. Ringo Star is another example, a lot of the Beatles recordings were terrible (it is quite hard to make up what the drums are doing), but he is still considered a great drummer regardless of that.Without some more definition of 'great', I'm not sure I can intelligently comment.
Great = Popular?...then yes, i would say that there are drummers that were made popular by one, maybe 2 recordings.
Great = Unusually Skilled?...then no. your recordings do not equal your skills....recordings tend to describe your skills but not always.
The ability to get your playing to an audience is distinct from ability to play...but does not suffer in value, imho, compared to ability to play the instrument. There are many things that define success with less and less consensus.
It is the same as with those who believe that using triggers is cheating. They only highlight your flaws a lot more.No. it was when the drummer is competent before he gets to the mics
So the 'mics' didn't 'make' (besides exposure!) the drummer..
An example of the opposite of this would be a band like Mr. Big. Billy Sheehan has said that he put that group together specifically for live. He knew that's what rockers want to hear and he didn't disappoint.That comment is about live v studio - the fact that some young bands were assembled for commercial purposes, and sometimes those pretty young things aren't very good players or singers. These days it's not really an issue because new artists today don't need drummers.
With help from an experienced production team, raw takes can be whipped into shape so they sound pro. Then the band goes for its first tour and they produce a rookie performance.
Back in my day ... (cue old person music) bands had to play the bar scene for years before getting a break, and most didn't make it. Those bands killed it on tour because they had spent years satisfying demanding audiences and dealing with the million and one things that can go awry when playing live.
I once heard a live recording of SRV's 'Pride and Joy' played through a massive PA and the groove was just jaw-dropping. Later I heard that same live CD through a standard stereo system and it was nowhere near as impressive.I understand the sound being bad will make you not want to listen to a performance, but how does that affect a perfect groove? I've seen street drummers playing buckets have perfect groove and be in the pocket just fine...
I spent much of my retirement remixing old takes and entire jams recorded on a single Zoom.Without proper tone the groove suffers, and vice versa it can amplify the performance massively. PS I guess compression may also play a part...
Imo if the groove is good, it's always there regardless of the sound quality. You could have the most impressive PA system but a shitty player will still be a shitty player, you will only be able to hear his mistakes more clearly. On the other hand a great player will still have a great groove even with low end gear.I once heard a live recording of SRV's 'Pride and Joy' played through a massive PA and the groove was just jaw-dropping. Later I heard that same live CD through a standard stereo system and it was nowhere near as impressive.
Without proper tone the groove suffers, and vice versa it can amplify the performance massively. PS I guess compression may also play a part...
I havnt played a session in yrs where we all laid down tracks all at the same time, sometimes w/o isolation booths.That comment is about live v studio - the fact that some young bands were assembled for commercial purposes, and sometimes those pretty young things aren't very good players or singers. These days it's not really an issue because new artists today don't need drummers.
With help from an experienced production team, raw takes can be whipped into shape so they sound pro. Then the band goes for its first tour and they produce a rookie performance.
Back in my day ... (cue old person music) bands had to play the bar scene for years before getting a break, and most didn't make it. Those bands killed it on tour because they had spent years satisfying demanding audiences and dealing with the million and one things that can go awry when playing live.
Still, when I hear a great drum track, my ears don't care if there's been corrections, as long as it's not so much that it compromises the energy. I care more about great songs and great drum tracks than great drummers, if that makes sense.