Swish Pang Pish Klang Cymbals: Land of Confusion

WOINA

WOINA

Member
I'm going to lump these cymbals, china/swish/pang, together for the time being.

According to an old Zildjian catalog there is a "texbook" difference between them but the names don't really match the sound I'm looking for.

I have an 80s 18" Wuhan that is sounds very "pangy". The classic trashcan lid sound. When I think of "swish" I think of a cymbal with a slightly longer attack, slightly longer decay ie: swiiiissshh.

I'm looking for something more like a "pish" sound. Short attack, slightly longer decay.

A good example is "Man of Our Times" off Genesis' Duke album.

A look around at what Collins played during that time is a bit nebulous.

So, what am I looking for? Youtube cymbal soundbite videos have been no help.
 
Swish- curved up edges
Pang- flat out edges
Swish Knocker- heavier than and with larger cup than swish

what was the 4th one?

China- usually has cup formed as hand-held 'handle'
 
Last edited:
Sound and applications are in the ear's of the beholder. In certain circumstance they can all sound about the same (the Pang is a bit weirder - I had an 18" A. years ago and was the least "Chinese" sounding; (more a dry ka- lang) whereas the others can be rich spreading sustaining

22" Avedis Swish Knocker the later year standard model is another I'd be wary of. I had one and it was so potent; it was like traveling with a live volcano.

the old 20" Avedis Swish is a friendly of friendliest traveling companion. Upside down or (preferably for safety's sake) Right side up.
 
Last edited:
jda said:
Sound and applications are in the ear's of the beholder. In certain circumstance they can all sound about the same (the Pang is a bit weirder ime - had an 18" A. years ago (the least "Chinese" sounding; more a dry ka- lang) whereas the others can be rich spread sustaining
Click to expand...
Not to mention I'm sure there's some production jiggery-pokery going on to make them sound different.
 
WOINA said:
Not to mention I'm sure there's some production jiggery-pokery going on to make them sound different.
Click to expand...
well they're all shaped-different as I noted--the edges----the weight---the size and type--of cup.

There was a trillion old school-style plain-stock standard- medium-thin as they were- Zildjian swishes - sold. Most of the time you are hearing those. But the 2oo2 china got a lot of 'play' too...
 
Last edited:
My buddy had a big thin one of these types of cymbals with no rivets, really unique animal. He used it like a big trashy alternative to a second crash, similar to the way many drummers now use these "fx" type of cymbals (ie: basically a really thin crash with a bunch of holes). I never used it that often but in the occasions I did use it I actually really liked it in place of a ride or as a left side ride. It had a nice barky bell, the shoulder and upper bow areas had a great defined 'tok' sound with a wood top stick, and the edge could be opened up to a nice crash. It could get out of control very easily if you over worked the edge and one errant hit at the wrong time would yield and extremely out of place loud crash BUT all in all it's a really cool versatile cymbal if you have to touch to control it.
 
I have a 20" Zildjian China Boy Low that sounds (to my ear) really close to that quick but not too quick China sound of Phil's.

Phil seemed to normally use 20" and 22" Zildjian Swishes with rivets before and after 1980 but right when Duke came out he seems to have switched back to endorsing Paiste and they say he was using an 18" 2002 China Type and an 18" Sound Creation Dark China. Could that have been what he recorded Duke with? Absolutely, but as already mentioned nailing anything down is tough because he really seems to use whatever he feels like, especially in the studio.

Decay is also a tough thing to depend on, this was right at the beginning of his sound getting more compression and gating. Man Of Our Times especially sounds like it has a lot of studio work on the drums. Everything sounds really big and tight which makes taking the cymbal sounds at face value (no pun intended) a little difficult.
 
s1212z said:
There are Kangs too (splash sized china).

I would go with a large china, 22 or above....from 83' looks like a big ol 22 here but said he was a cymbal collector in that interview, so who knows what is on that Duke track.

View attachment 133963
Click to expand...
Yeah he's a great drummer but a poor archivist, lol.

Cymbals out of context are so hard to choose. Just wailing on a bunch in the middle of the store for a hour makes me want to drive into a bridge abutment.

I've had that particular type of cymbal sound in my head for years. A sort of Giant Splash. No galvanized overtones, no crumpled quarter panels just a nice, quick wash of sound. Like a metallic wave breaking.

I'll start looking into largish swishes and see if I can get it dialed in to what's in my head.
Thanks
 
Zildjian made Pang and Swish cymbals as Oriental style cymbals for many years. They were pretty much the same, I believe, but the Swish had rivets.

Years ago, I bought an old Zildjian Swish with the rivets removed, and I used it live occasionally up to last year. It is an extremely loud cymbal, but it doesn't sound like what we have come to know as a contemporary China. It's more like a dirty sounding ride, although I used it as a crash, but only sparingly, when I could really whack it, like on a big stadium ending. There's footage up on Facebook of 461 Clapton Boulevard, where I do a big flourish at the end of "Sunshine Of Your Love," smacking the piss out of that Swish.

I still have a couple of Wuhans, one of which is for sale. Since I got the Sabian AA 21" Holy China, I have no need for it anymore.

I have a couple of really old, antique made in China cymbals that I don't take out of the house. They look to be about 90-100 years old, and are sized strangely. One is almost 16.5", and the other is about 18" or so. They're very crudely made, but if you listen to very old recordings of swing and Dixieland drummers, they have that sound. It's like an "ahhh" sound. I tried using the larger one on a couple of gigs, but decided it was too old to use live.
 
Last edited:
Im thinking you might be looking for a smaller china, loosly mounted and played by 'pushing through' the cymbal just a little.

The difference between a swish/china seems less than how its played in determining the decay charactaristics...but the difference really shows in the timbre(obviously ; ).
 
Last edited:
I think the cause of the sustain increase is psychological...it changes how you feel about hitting it....I don't think the cymbal vibrates more freely when up or down(as long as it does not touch anything)
 
WOINA said:
I'm going to lump these cymbals, china/swish/pang, together for the time being.

According to an old Zildjian catalog there is a "texbook" difference between them but the names don't really match the sound I'm looking for.

I have an 80s 18" Wuhan that is sounds very "pangy". The classic trashcan lid sound. When I think of "swish" I think of a cymbal with a slightly longer attack, slightly longer decay ie: swiiiissshh.

I'm looking for something more like a "pish" sound. Short attack, slightly longer decay.

A good example is "Man of Our Times" off Genesis' Duke album.

A look around at what Collins played during that time is a bit nebulous.

So, what am I looking for? Youtube cymbal soundbite videos have been no help.
Click to expand...
I agree with previous posts, the china / swish on "Man of our times" sounds like a 20" or 22", but then
compare that sound with the china sound on "Abacab", Phil says that is an 18".
md142cs_0013.jpg
 
I played a Zildjian Pang ride one time. It made my Zildjian Scimitar ride sound like it was a hand-hammered Turkish cymbal.

It was the worst ride I've ever played, and I've played some real stinkers.
 
Thanks for all the help. It has helped me narrow things down a bit.

A +/- 20" Zildjian China Boy Low is probably looking like the best bet for the sound I'm looking for.

Looks like I'm off to ebay and reverb.

Thanks again.
 
that's a rare one to find they're usually (cough...) High..
But don't pass on a bog standard old er vintage no-or little- ink 20 A Swish check it out thoroughly Good luck



take the money and run..
 
Last edited:
I was seriously looking at a Meinl 18" Holy Moly (not sure of the real name atm). I thought it might work well if it turned out the "sound" in question was produced by some long discontinued, impossible to find cymbal. I've got a 12" Meinl China Collander on my wishlist so I'm not opposed to the idea

BTW: that Craig Blundell video is how a cymbal demo video should be. Seeing how those cymbals work off each other is very informative. Most demo videos are less than optimal for any usefulness.
 
China cymbals are definitely a matter of taste, so I'd play as many as you can. Listening to sound samples online is OK, but I'm sure you know it's best to check them out in person if you can. I'm crazy about the 21" Sabian AA Holy China I just got a while back. It's one of the nastiest Chinas I've ever owned.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top