Sound checking the sound check

S

Stickman

Silver Member
It drives me crazy when the sound guy tweaks the knobs or doesn't stay on top of it during the show.. or we do our own sound and the guitarist manning the board doesn't get what drums should sound like. (although the guitar sounds awesome!)

I'm always trying to improve my sound; from enhancing my drum equipment, drum technique, micing, dealing with venue acoustics, and different sound techs that have different approaches. Generally I find it all comes down to kick and snare - and getting that perfect for the both the stage mix and the FOH mix. My cymbals and toms are usually great (thank you Paiste). Basically when it's right - everything just falls into place.
So I have a few techniques for checking my sound:
1. have a band member play my kit while I walk to the back of the venue and listen carefully.
2. talk to the sound tech and tell him exactly what sound you are gong for.. especially ' the kick and snare sound'
3. I've thought about recording with my Zoom H2N during sound check but haven't tried that yet..
4. Any other tricks that you use to 'sound check the sound check'?
 
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The reason I don’t close mic my kit at gigs is because I don’t trust our lead singer, who runs the sound, to mix the drums properly. Getting the balance between the kick, toms and snare is beyond his desire to achieve. Kick and overhead is about all I trust him with. He is also the lead guitar player and I think that is all he listens to when he goes out front. Several times he has not noticed that the mains were muted or the subs not on. How do you not notice things like that when you are supposedly out front listening? We get lots of gigs, so it can’t be too bad out front.
 
whats the name/ style of the band/ any You Tube vid of the band performing?
 
Honestly, I think sound checks are a bit of a waste of time.

NOTHING ever sounds the same when you do a sound check in an empty room and then fill the room up with people.

The presence of bodies absorbs numerous frequencies bouncing around the room. There is always a certain amount of talking/chatter amongst people in the crowd that alters audio perception. Plus bartenders doing their thing add additional noise to the room.

Soundcheck is good for the engineer to know what mics are needed where, what the configuration of the band is, etc. But dialing in a good tone is pointless as it's all going to change.
 
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DrumEatDrum said:
Honestly, I think sound checks are a bit of a waste of time.

NOTHING ever sounds the same when you do a sound check in an empty room and then fill the room up with people.

The presence of bodies absorbs numerous frequencies bouncing around the room. There is always a certain amount of talking/chatter amongst people in the crowd that alters audio perception. Plus bartenders doing their thing add additional noise to the room.

Soundcheck is good for the engineer to know what mics are needed where, what the configuration of the band is, etc. But dialing in a good tone is pointless as it's all going to change.
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yep...when I run sound, the sound check is me checking lines, and trouble shooting; I will get monitors going etc, but I always tell the groups
I work with that their first song will actually be the legit sound check for the FOH because of the environment change you mentioned above, and that the sound on stage can also change as the room fills up.

when am playing, i just make sure that the signal I give them is the cleanest it can be from me; for drums that is the best drums, heads and cymbals; for bass it is having a good pre amp and power amp; good cables; fresh batteries for the active pickups

what happens to my sound after me is not in my realm...I can't worry about that
 
As a pro sound guy - I agree the soundcheck is never what you get with a full venue. So I spend it doing line checks and making sure monitors are good. Musicians are the biggest culprits here - they just play louder when the venue is open. And they claim they know what it sounds like in the house when they’re NOT in the house. If band members were less narcissistic there’d be 80% less drama to deal with all the way around.

Funnier still are those musicians who get a decent mix and then leave their little boards at those settings as a starting point for the next gig. As if the conditions will be exactly the same everywhere they go! I make it clear to bands who use me as their mixer that I’m not interested in what they’ve done before, or in their opinions of what it sounds like. They just have to understand that they don’t understand what it is I’m doing for them.

(That’s pretty “off-side”, eh? 😂😂😂)
 
DrumEatDrum said:
Honestly, I think sound checks are a bit of a waste of time.

NOTHING ever sounds the same when you do a sound check in an empty room and then fill the room up with people.
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the sound check is much more about the musicians getting a feel for the room (which I agree changes, but at least you have a certain handle on it) and more importantly making sure your monitoring is on point. I don't really concern myself with the out front sound.
If you want to have someone play your drums while you walk around the venue, you really need someone who plays like you do, the same volume, the same velocity and timbre.
 
The only thing I worry about is my drums sounding good and playing well. I’ve got great gear and great mics. I can tune pretty darn good too. I use Snareweights on everything, and there is very little to no sympathetic ring or overtones around my kit. I should be a sound guy’s dream when it comes to running my drums.
 
In venues where there is a sound tech, I try to get the band to play a verse of a song with the monitors off.
That way you only need to add what you can't hear in the monitors.

Its surprising how many soundchecks just add everything to every monitor, before the band has played anything together.
Mick
 
MustangMick said:
I try to get the band to play a verse of a song with the monitors off.
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That's a cool idea.. never tried it. I'd be curious to see how our singers would react without a monitor Lol.
Usually I try to play a verse with just the monitors only - so you can check the stage volume and try to get the sound to approximate the levels of your practice space - where everything is balanced and clear. Minimizing monitor volume levels avoids muddying the sound out front. Once that's okay, then turn up the FOH speakers to whatever is needed out front. This works everytime.. but still the occassional sound tech skips this 'stage volume check' step.
I had one guy at a big venue just check all the mics for signal.. then went straight to the FOH +monitor mix. It was a disaster. Had to start over!
 
Very true about the sound check versus curtain time when the venue is filled with people. Especially in hard surfaced rooms or glass walls etc. the crowd can really save the overall sound!
Haven't experienced cases where the band cranks it up at game time.. although one lead guitarist comes to mind!
 
Stickman said:
or we do our own sound and the guitarist manning the board doesn't get what drums should sound like. (although the guitar sounds awesome!)
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Funny how the one running the sound has the best sound, huh? Our bass player runs ours & his 5 string is very up front in the mix. Yet I'm the one who's "too loud" as I "hammer away" at my kit (according to him). :rolleyes:

Overall, we try to have the singer be in the front of the mix for good vocals. I know I'm loud enough (half the time my 14x8 snare isn't even mic'd), so I have the rest do what they need to do.
But I'm with you on those doing the mixing will always favor themselves.
 
I have been to sound checks on large venues 20k + and larger, it changes but you always have an engineer running the board adjusting on the fly but the thing that always bother me was that they always limit sound quality for the opening bands and then when the main band comes it sounds significantly better. I feel that doing that cheats the audience of a better experience, and if I was running the board, I would want every band to sound their best and not just one.
 
For a while a local jam had a sound guy who was so terrible at drum mix that I wouldn't sign up because nobody could tell what the drums were even doing.
The house was up there killing it and it just sounded like mud, mud, mud.
 
doggyd69b said:
I have been to sound checks on large venues 20k + and larger, it changes but you always have an engineer running the board adjusting on the fly but the thing that always bother me was that they always limit sound quality for the opening bands and then when the main band comes it sounds significantly better. I feel that doing that cheats the audience of a better experience, and if I was running the board, I would want every band to sound their best and not just one.
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That's a fine attitude to have.
However, no headline act wants the support band to go over better then them. Also, the board and mics are set up for the main act, so what is left for the support act is not always ideal. Corners may have to be cut.
The main act takes up 3/4 of the pre-show time, so often a support act gets either no soundcheck or a very short sound check.
 
Chris Whitten said:
the sound check is much more about the musicians getting a feel for the room (which I agree changes, but at least you have a certain handle on it) and more importantly making sure your monitoring is on point. I don't really concern myself with the out front sound.
If you want to have someone play your drums while you walk around the venue, you really need someone who plays like you do, the same volume, the same velocity and timbre.
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yeah...when i am the musician, that is what I use sound check for...making sure my stuff on stage is right...

MustangMick said:
Its surprising how many soundchecks just add everything to every monitor, before the band has played anything together.
Mick
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oh man...this is so true...or when sound guys just assume that as a drummer, I want tons of my drums in the monitor, then bass etc....I NEVER have the drums in my monitor if I have the choice....I can definitely hear them. I do have just a bit of kick drum to give me that "stadium ass kicking" feel of the bass. I do bass guitar and vocals in my monitor (I can usually hear the guitars enough b/c of cab placement

and the other one that always gets me is:
"drummer, check your voclas"
I sing a bit
"is that enough in the monitors"
uhhh....no one else was playing, so....maybe?

I always tell them I won't know until the whole band is playing, and that some times leaves a perplecex look on their face

Stickman said:
That's a cool idea.. never tried it. I'd be curious to see how our singers would react without a monitor Lol.
Usually I try to play a verse with just the monitors only - so you can check the stage volume and try to get the sound to approximate the levels of your practice space - where everything is balanced and clear. Minimizing monitor volume levels avoids muddying the sound out front. Once that's okay, then turn up the FOH speakers to whatever is needed out front. This works everytime.. but still the occassional sound tech skips this 'stage volume check' step.
I had one guy at a big venue just check all the mics for signal.. then went straight to the FOH +monitor mix. It was a disaster. Had to start over!
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huh...so where is this magical practice space with balanced and clear sound?:cool::):unsure:

Stickman said:
Very true about the sound check versus curtain time when the venue is filled with people. Especially in hard surfaced rooms or glass walls etc. the crowd can really save the overall sound!
Haven't experienced cases where the band cranks it up at game time.. although one lead guitarist comes to mind!
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Chris Whitten said:
It is super common, at all levels of the business.
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was gonna say...that is almost a staple at metal and punk shows...

@ sound check:

me: "uh, guitar plaer stage left, can you turn your volume down a bit?"
guit: "sure"
right before show, I see guit guy "sneak" his volume back up...

and currently play in a band with that gal too...

Chris Whitten said:
That's a fine attitude to have.
However, no headline act wants the support band to go over better then them. Also, the board and mics are set up for the main act, so what is left for the support act is not always ideal. Corners may have to be cut.
The main act takes up 3/4 of the pre-show time, so often a support act gets either no soundcheck or a very short sound check.
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that is also in the good old category of 'paying your dues"

i have been an opening act to a few big name bands, and at most of the shows, the sound guy was not even at the board after the first song...David Byrne's sound guys were very cool though. That was probably our best opening act mix/sound experience.
 
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