Sound cancelling my attic

A

AidanM

Junior Member
Basically, My attic is getting fixed so I can have the drums up there. My parents would like it to be as cheap but as quiet as possible. Neighbors have complained in the pasts about the noise.

What would be the best way to cancel the sound? Sound proof the walls or would that cost to much? My parents saw "Sound Blankets" if they are any good or even the both?
 
There really is no cheap way to "sound proof" a room. There's numerous threads here on sound proofing that provide some excellent reading. Check 'em out.

But in short, sound blankets help dampen sound waves from bouncing around from wall to wall (i.e. they reduce that boomy, echoey sound that many rooms are prone to), but do absolutely nothing to stop sound vibrations from being heard. Your parents will still hear your drums and your neighbours will still complain.
 
Unless you have a lot of money, an attic is not a good place for drums. First there is the jumping on the ceiling bit. Anything you do up there is going to transmit straight down to people below. Especially pounding on a kick pedal.

Most homes aren't built with attics strong enough to support the weight of a useful sound isolating room. The framing and layers of sheet rock are heavy. And a floor that would keep the vibrations from going though, even "floated" or isolated, will be really heavy.

This is a job for a professional architect, engineer and contractor. In other words, probably more than you want to spend.
 
Aeolian said:
Unless you have a lot of money, an attic is not a good place for drums. First there is the jumping on the ceiling bit. Anything you do up there is going to transmit straight down to people below. Especially pounding on a kick pedal.

Most homes aren't built with attics strong enough to support the weight of a useful sound isolating room. The framing and layers of sheet rock are heavy. And a floor that would keep the vibrations from going though, even "floated" or isolated, will be really heavy.

This is a job for a professional architect, engineer and contractor. In other words, probably more than you want to spend.
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How much would it cost?
 
Aeolian said:
Most homes aren't built with attics strong enough to support the weight of a useful sound isolating room.
Click to expand...

Sure they are. Roof trusses are built with the same materials as the rest of the house, and are premanufactured in a controlled environment. Plus they are gusseted adding to the reinforcement of the truss itself, unlike the framing of the house. Saying they aren't strong enough would be like saying that the second story isn't strong enough. Roof trusses are supported by load bearing walls, and the surface area of the roof on a single story house is about 1.5 times the square footage of the house itself. The roof has to put up with wind, rain, ice, and snow. They are incredibly strong. An attic is essentially the empty space inside the trusses. It would be fine for a practice space, if you can deal with the excessive heat and lack of ventilation. If the base of the trusses and insulation are exposed, you will have to put in a floor. The only thing under the insulation is the sheet rock that makes up the ceiling of the room below, and you can fall through this. Regardless of any of this, the attic would not be supporting the weight, the framework under the attic (read walls) will be doing the supporting.

I worked in architecture for 8 years and grew up in a construction family.

AidanM said:
How much would it cost?
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To soundproof an attic, a lot. Even if your attic already has a floor, that's about all it will have. Roof decking (plywood) is the only thing covering the attic, it isn't gonna be like a wall that has framing and insulation inside it. It will for sure take a lot of work. You could do it yourself if you have the ability, but lumber and soundproofing materials are still expensive.
 
If your parents are like most, they would prefer you playing that old standard, "Long Ago and Far Away".

You are probably not going to sound proof your attic. A better bet would be to sound proof your drums. Sound Offs come to mind and you won't have the cops coming out all the time.
 
In my opinion, the attic is one of the worst places to try to limit the inside sound to the outside world. Just for grins and giggles, why do you think sound reinforcement contractors try to get their speaker systems as high up in the air as they can, it's for much better sound distribution. I'm talking about stadiums, outdoor arenas and indoor stage areas. The same scenario occurs when loud sound or noise comes from the top floor of a building. There are much less objects directly outside the house at that level that will limit or diffuse the sound from traveling to your neighbors when your set-up is high up in your house. The basement, if you have one, is a Much better part of the house to be able to control what's getting out.

Dennis
 
MrInsanePolack said:
Sure they are. Roof trusses are built with the same materials as the rest of the house, and are premanufactured in a controlled environment. Plus they are gusseted adding to the reinforcement of the truss itself, unlike the framing of the house. Saying they aren't strong enough would be like saying that the second story isn't strong enough. Roof trusses are supported by load bearing walls, and the surface area of the roof on a single story house is about 1.5 times the square footage of the house itself. The roof has to put up with wind, rain, ice, and snow. They are incredibly strong. An attic is essentially the empty space inside the trusses. It would be fine for a practice space, if you can deal with the excessive heat and lack of ventilation. If the base of the trusses and insulation are exposed, you will have to put in a floor. The only thing under the insulation is the sheet rock that makes up the ceiling of the room below, and you can fall through this. Regardless of any of this, the attic would not be supporting the weight, the framework under the attic (read walls) will be doing the supporting.



I worked in architecture for 8 years and grew up in a construction family.



To soundproof an attic, a lot. Even if your attic already has a floor, that's about all it will have. Roof decking (plywood) is the only thing covering the attic, it isn't gonna be like a wall that has framing and insulation inside it. It will for sure take a lot of work. You could do it yourself if you have the ability, but lumber and soundproofing materials are still expensive.
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How much roughly would it cost?
 
To build a room within a room in an attic...all from scratch....soundproofed and done right, which means ventilated, heated/cooled etc....easily $50,000.00
Of course it depends very much on how large the space is.

Buy a Large Whisper Room instead and assemble it up there (if you can fit the 3'x8' sections of wall up there). They are expensive new ($10,000 for a large one) , but they can be found used for $2500-4000. They still aren't completely soundproof but they will cut down the volume a lot.

Good luck
 
AidanM said:
How much roughly would it cost?
Click to expand...

Keep in mind this is just a rough idea, lumber prices change almost daily (it's a fluctuating commodity, like food).

To build a room 12' wide x 8' deep x 8' high, and assuming there is already a floor to build this on, you will need:

A secondary floor - (3) 7/16" thick minimum sheets of plywood. The framing for each sheet will require (6) 8' long 2x4's. That is (18) 2x4's for the floor.

Walls - (20) 1/4" thick sheets of plywood. 10 for the inside of the wall, 10 for the outside. The framing requirements are the same as the floor, so (6) per panel, or (60) total.

You want a thicker plywood for the floor because it needs to support you and your drums. The thicker the plywood, the less flex it will have. If you use too thin of a piece, your floor will sag somewhat. 7/16 should be minimum, anything thicker would be even better.

The walls don't have to be as thick, because they don't support anything, the framing does. The plywood just holds the sound deadening material inside the wall. Looking at my local Lowes site, 1/4" is cheaper than 1/8", so that's why I listed 1/4". Keep in mind that the thinner the wood, the less sound deadening it will do.

The framing needs (6) 2x4's because each piece of plywood needs framing around its perimeter, and studs every 16" on center. That is (5) 2x4's right there. The sixth is for bracing between the studs.

Looking at my local Lowes site, the prices are as follows:
7/16"x4'x8' plywood per sheet: $9.15 (x 3 = $27.45)
1/4"x4'x8' plywood per sheet: $11.65 (x 20 = $233.00)
2"x4"x8' framing per piece: $2.67 (x 78 = $208.26)
Your total in lumber is $468.71 before tax.

If I did this, I would try to fill the walls and floor with whatever kind of foam type material I could find for cheap. Carpet padding comes to mind, some carpet stores will allow you to dumpster dive and get all the carpet and padding you can haul. I would stuff the walls and floor with padding, and hang carpet on both sides of the walls and carpet the floor also.

If you have the tools and the know how, you could build this for less than $750. Don't forget you will need nails, but screws will be better because they don't pull out, and you will need a door of some kind. It wouldn't hurt to buy maybe 10-15 extra 2x4's just to be on the safe side (mistakes will be made, its almost guaranteed). Couldn't tell you about cooling and ventilation, other than try to find a cheap window unit.

This plan is without a ceiling. If you put a ceiling on it you can just use (3) pieces of plywood, unless you want to frame them also. Again, this is a very basic framed room. Hope it helps. It isn't cheap, but it isn't nearly as ridiculous as others have suggested.
 
Check out some of those old threads. Do a search for "sound proofing" and start reading. The resources are already there, why not use them?

There's a lot of great info there from people who have done it, where the process is detailed in full and you can get a far better idea of exactly what's required and the cost involved.
 
AidanM said:
Basically, My attic is getting fixed so I can have the drums up there. My parents would like it to be as cheap but as quiet as possible. Neighbors have complained in the pasts about the noise.

What would be the best way to cancel the sound? Sound proof the walls or would that cost to much? My parents saw "Sound Blankets" if they are any good or even the both?
Click to expand...

Maybe you could check out http://www.greengluecompany.com. If you use their stuff, report back, I would like to see what you think of it. I have read up on it but we live in a neighborhood where the houses are far apart, and the closest neighbor is very hard of hearing.
 
Go buy/borrow/beg for this book:

"Keep the Peace!" by Mark Parsons, which was written with drummers in mind.

And/or

"Build it Like the Pros" by Rod Gervais, which much bigger and more detailed, although perhaps overkill for your needs.

Overall, I agree an attic is a difficult place to get any sound proofing. Sound loves to travel down through the studs. At best, the rest of the house will become a bass trap.
 
MIP, you have obviously built things, but not "soundproofed" rooms. Please read Rod Gervais' book and get back to us. You're expertise may be of great benefit to the OP in his particular situation, but there is much more to this than sheathing the rafters with plywood and throwing up studs over that.

The floor will conduct thumps from the kick pedal and striking of drums. It needs to be isolated, as well as high mass. This means some sort of rubber isolator designed for the weight and of necessary compliance for the frequencies that will get transmitted (based on the mass and stiffness of the drum room) The new floor needs to be stiff and self supporting between the iso mounts. Which given the weight that's going to be put on top of it probably means at least 2x6 joists. Most such secondary floors are plywood sheathing followed by one or two layers of drywall for mass and another layer of sheathing for the underlayment. Serious studios actually pour concrete secondary floors. The walls and ceiling on top of this secondary floor need to be free standing and not attached to the existing structure in any way, or structure borne vibrations will cancel all the hard work. Since it's playing into essentially dead space, the interior of the attic, you don't need exterior sheathing, that only improves the efficiency of sound radiating from the drum room into the space and coupling to the existing structure. But the walls and ceiling do need mass. 2-3 layers of 5/8s type X drywall, and then as much insulation (like R30) as possible in the stud spaces and around the structure.

Then you need to work out a door (or double doors) that is as effective as the walls and seal said door and any electrical and ventilation penetrations so that they are airtight.

If you are lucky you can distribute the weight of all this onto load bearing walls provided their footings are up to the task. This is why I said that you need an architect to look at the specific situation. It's not like putting a storage shed up there.

It has been done, there was a fellow on one of the studio building forums who put an isolated room on the 2nd floor of his house. He even had to take out parts of the walls to get his large format console in there before finishing things as it wouldn't fit up the stairs. I used to work for Dolby and there is an isolated test theater on the 3rd floor of the main building. After much analysis by structural engineers, they still filled up drums with water to simulate the weight and left it over the weekend to be sure.
 
The OP said cheap, so I went that route. It would offer some sound deadening, but I agree it wouldn't be soundproof in any way. It would at least be a good starting point. I get the thumps, my brother had drums on the second floor. It was loud below, but my mom could tolerate it. There is definitely a correlation between price and soundproof. But again, he said cheap.
 
People always want a "cheap" solution. Foam, blankets, carpet, egg cartons or whatever. If people are complaining, they need a real solution, which is not cheap. I've said it before, we need a "soundproofing" sticky. If for nothing more than to limit these weekly threads about the neighbors complaining and my buddy said we could staple mattress pads to the walls.

Quick note about mattress pads and other consumer foam, please see The Station fire at the Great White show. Bad news.
 
Perhaps then he should choose, cheap or sound "proof". It sounds to me like the main concern is the complaining neighbors. If anything, he will at least know how to build walls!
 
Aeolian said:
People always want a "cheap" solution. Foam, blankets, carpet, egg cartons or whatever. If people are complaining, they need a real solution, which is not cheap. I've said it before, we need a "soundproofing" sticky. If for nothing more than to limit these weekly threads about the neighbors complaining and my buddy said we could staple mattress pads to the walls.

Quick note about mattress pads and other consumer foam, please see The Station fire at the Great White show. Bad news.
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Yup.

One of my first concerns before even going into the soundproofing is HVAC, is there duct work running up there to heat and cool the attic. If not that's huge problem number one before even starting in on walls and sound proofing. Most attics get ridiculously hot in the summer and very cold in the winter which translates into all sorts of bad things for the wood in the drums, heads and well eventually rust on the hardware. So unless there is already a way to heat and cool that space,duct work already up there, you are looking at some decent money just to get that done.

Here's a good online resource to start reading up on what it takes to truly do sound proofing.
http://www.acoustics101.com/
 
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