Seeking a Triplet Transitioning to 16ths Loop

Paul Blood

Junior Member
I’m trying to help a buddy transition from triplets to 16ths and back again. I thought playing along to a program/ quantized loop might help.

I did find this video on YouTube, but I seeking just 8th note triplets transitioning to 16ths and back again on a loop.Is there an app for that ?

 
Teach him to count it correctly, he’ll get it.
i did that, but I thought a perfectly quantized loop would help too. I wish that I still had my old Yamaha programmable drum machine but surely there’s apps that you can do that sort of programming on a phone now.
 
Teach him to count it correctly, he’ll get it.

As long as the counting syllables being used are not "1 & a 2 & a..." transitioning to "1 e & a 2 e & a..."

In my experience, those particular syllables make things markedly harder for students...because they trick the student into falsely believing that there is overlap in the note placement between the 2 rhythms.

So, for the love of all that is decent in this world, can we please use some other set of syllables for triplets? Anything at all! Seriously—they're just nonsense syllables anyway, so why choose the one set of nonsense syllables that will make the concept MORE DIFFICULT to understand?

I personally use "1 la li, 2 la li..." but seriously, any silly sounds will do as long as they're not the same silly sounds that are already associated with a completely different rhythm!!!

Sorry, Todd, I'm not upset with you. 🤣

I suspect that this might even be something that you and I agree on. I just posted in response to your post because it brought up the topic of counting.
 
That was actually quite fun to play, combining triplets with 16ths - has given me some new ideas for fills! (y)
 
As long as the counting syllables being used are not "1 & a 2 & a..." transitioning to "1 e & a 2 e & a..."

In my experience, those particular syllables make things markedly harder for students...because they trick the student into falsely believing that there is overlap in the note placement between the 2 rhythms.

I figure people are as confused as I let them be-- any time there’s anything ambiguous like that I take a second and make sure they’re clear on it and it works fine.

None of these systems are self-teaching based on seeing them written. Half the people using the trip let syllables are saying it tri pa let tri pa let, or one tri pa let two tri pa let or whatever totally wrong thing. People don't get it from the syllable, they get it from knowing the rhythm.

So, for the love of all that is decent in this world, can we please use some other set of syllables for triplets? Anything at all! Seriously—they're just nonsense syllables anyway, so why choose the one set of nonsense syllables that will make the concept MORE DIFFICULT to understand?

I personally use "1 la li, 2 la li..."

Whoever came up with that one had to be either a vocalist or a violinist. It's no good for me for percussion.

Trip let has too many useless consonants.

but seriously, any silly sounds will do as long as they're not the same silly sounds that are already associated with a completely different rhythm!!!

I mean, whose idea was it to teach that association as a fixed spot on the grid? I think they were overreaching.

Sorry, Todd, I'm not upset with you. 🤣

No problem, I’ve written at length about all the reasons I despise ways of counting not my own.

I’ve actually been 1e&a-fying all my counting. It works great because it reuses familiar syllables.

I suspect that this might even be something that you and I agree on. I just posted in response to your post because it brought up the topic of counting.

Probably!
 
Half the people using the trip let syllables are saying it tri pa let tri pa let, or one tri pa let two tri pa let or whatever totally wrong thing.

Yep. Many years ago, I actually had a short piece in Modern Drummer espousing the use of "# trip let." Now, ironically, I myself don't even use that anymore for the reasons that you just listed plus a few other reasons as well.

Whoever came up with that one had to be either a vocalist or a violinist. It's no good for me for percussion.

Well, you nailed that one. It's from a vocal book published in the 1950's.

I mean, whose idea was it to teach that association as a fixed spot on the grid? I think they were overreaching.

I think people do tend to make various mental associations with a given concept. So giving a student a particular set of syllables that correspond to specific rhythms can help the brain to remember those rhythms. Some people refer to this entire idea as "rhythmic solfege."

The Ta Ka Di Mi version of "rhythmic solfege" is actually quite good, and even quite clever. You can learn the whole system online. The only thing it lacks is literal numbers. When I use it, I miss having the numbers, which is why it hasn't become my main approach.

I’ve actually been 1e&a-fying all my counting. It works great because it reuses familiar syllables.

Unless I'm reading you incorrectly, this seems to imply that you're actively making a change in that direction. I will genuinely be interested to hear how this goes as you see this in action with more and more students over time.

I can foresee some pitfalls that might potentially come up. For example, I wouldn't wanna be in the room on the day when a student is working on a measure of 8th note triplets leading into a measure of the figure that is "an 8th note followed by 2 16th notes."

I guess the count will literally be "1 & a, 2 & a..." leading into "1 & a, 2 & a..." Good grief.

But, the reality is, there simply is no perfect solution. None of the counting systems are flawless. All of them have their own unique limitations. The main thing is that the teacher understands the concept and can effectively communicate it to the student. From your posts over the years, I truly don't have the slightest doubt that you can do that.

Keep fighting the good fight of trying to figure out the best ways to conceptualize and teach all this stuff. That's really the only thing we can do.

Thanks for the response.
 
Some songs feature a rhythmic structure that is known as "compound meter."

With compound meter, a song feels exactly like there are "triplets" happening...but technically, there are not.

Because the sound is literally 100% identical, I think it makes sense to use a single set of counting syllables for both triplets and compound meter.

That is the main reason that I abandoned the use of "1 trip let, 2 trip let" altogether. I couldn't bring myself to have students saying this in compound meter. I mean...students already get confused about this stuff as it is. I felt that it was malpractice to have them chanting the word "triplet" in songs that don't actually include any triplets!
 
Some songs feature a rhythmic structure that is known as "compound meter."

With compound meter, a song feels exactly like there are "triplets" happening...but technically, there are not.

Because the sound is literally 100% identical, I think it makes sense to use a single set of counting syllables for both triplets and compound meter.

That is the main reason that I abandoned the use of "1 trip let, 2 trip let" altogether. I couldn't bring myself to have students saying this in compound meter. I mean...students already get confused about this stuff as it is. I felt that it was malpractice to have them chanting the word "triplet" in songs that don't actually include any triplets!

I describe it as triplet feel, which is accurate and easy to understand. But that's part of why I hate the trip let syllables.

Also if you read the thing I linked to, I'll get compound 16ths by touching some extra syllables, which sounds stupid with trip let. Like 1 da tri pa le ta.
 
I describe it as triplet feel, which is accurate and easy to understand. But that's part of why I hate the trip let syllables.

Also if you read the thing I linked to, I'll get compound 16ths by touching some extra syllables, which sounds stupid with trip let. Like 1 da tri pa le ta.

Yeah, it sounds like we're on the same page here. I looked very briefly at the link you sent, but I admit that I haven't gone through it very thoroughly yet. I'll go back and dig a bit deeper into it. It appears that you've got quite a lot of stuff there. It's very impressive actually. I wasn't aware that you had so many articles and books that you've written. That's amazing.

By the way, have you ever checked out the Ta Ka Di Mi system? Here's a link to a summary of it:


Your previous post made me think of this because you talked about feeling that "la li" is not great for percussion. The Ta Ka Di Mi system is very percussive in nature, so I think you might find it interesting or useful. They also did a clever thing where the exact midpoint of the beat is the same syllable in both simple meter and compound meter. Clearly, some smart people put a lot of thought into it.
 
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