Ringo's Drumming: Harder Than It Looks

Mad About Drums said:
... until we actually try for ourselves, it's not a question of technical merit as such, most of us can replicate the technical side of their drumming, what's much more difficult is to get is the feel and pulse right when we cover these drummers, especially Ringo and Phil, it's much harder than it looks (sounds) to make it authentic, that's when you realise there is more going on than meets the eye (ear).
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That's it, Henri. It's one thing to play a beat, another to make it feel good. He's an unschooled rock n' roll drummer but obviously has tons of natural talent. As Mikel mentioned earlier, Ringo was the one holding the band together at that Washington Coliseum gig, where they played in the craziest of circumstances. You need awesome instincts to perform the way he did while obviously barely being able to hear a thing but drums and screaming.
 
Les Ismore said:
I do hear it more behind the beat, unlike the studio version, and I also hear everything else about the live examples being crap compared to the studio cut, like its a different drummer.
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re: I Feel Fine.. There was also a comment that he wasn't playing the tom ruff.. but if you listen closely you can hear he actually plays it in the live video (crappy sound quality but.. it's there.) Pretty cool considering - it's not easy to play a one hand ruff with the left hand on a tom - at that speed - while also playing a one hand ruff on bell cymbal with the right hand pattern.

I put the difference between the original studio and some of the live playing examples down to a few things:
- it's Live! Considering the noise and environmental variables, Ringo may have been hearing it differently on stage. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the 'lads' were playing a bit loose and may have been imbibing a bit before hitting the stage.
- they wrote and played that tune in 1959.. fast forward to 1965 and I'm sure most drummers would play the same song differently.. either from boredom or maybe that the latin inspiration/popularity of the original was no longer in fashion and they probably updated it a bit to a more 'rock' feel. I did see one version where Ringo played it totally different.. reduced to just a basic rock beat.
- I have to say, having played that tune and know the original pattern inside out.. I'm often tempted to change the beat or groove.. as the original is a bit square and busy... It actually does sound pretty good when you simplify it or rock it up a bit.
 
I've said in the past, I feel Ringo got the job because he provided what John, Paul and George were looking for.

Most drummers at that time were from a heavy jazz background. So many rock bands pre-Beatles had drummers who were jazz guys trying to play straight 8th note music, and inevitably their jazz feel still came through. John, Paul and George were wanting a new sound for that time period that was devoid of the implied jazz feel

Ringo didn't have that built in swing feel so many of his contemporaries in 1962 had. Sure, he had some swing, as was common in skiffle bands of his era, but he wasn't coming from that traditional jazz background. It certainly wasn't blind luck he ended up in the band, he was picked because he gave the other three what they wanted out of a drummer.

You could say he was really the first guy who played for the songwriter.
 
Les Ismore said:
Not buy a double bass, but per the ' I Feel Fine' studio example above, nowhere live does Ringo play a mambo type groove with that adeptness post 1965, he never shows chops like that again is my point.

Show me any live example of Ringo playing a mambo type grove with a cross stick snare... none.

Further listening of the studio track reveals the right hand cascara pattern is never duplicated live with the same proficiency. Latin grooves are driven by the cascara pattern, its played tight, on the beat, Ringo's live examples are not there, they're behind the beat and simple'd out like a rock drummer would play them.

So the reality is if one can do it in the studio, there's no reason (at least) some of the same would be done/shown live, and Im not talking about leaving out a few beats, Im talking about proficiency. Don Henley plays live with the same proficiency he does in the studio, weather or not its the exact same parts doesn't matter.

On the 'I Feel Fine' studio example, Ringo never again shows the same level of proficiency. That IFF studio vid BTW is titled 'The Beatles - I Feel Fine isolated drum track, drums only', there's no mention of Ringo.





Hmmmm, I don't hear that fill being 'more' complicated, I do hear it more behind the beat, unlike the studio version, and I also hear everything else about the live examples being crap compared to the studio cut, like its a different drummer.

The studio cut sounds like some experienced drummer came in and said "Hey man, that's a mambo feel!" and then proceeds to overdub it like someone versed in latin grooves, i.e. with a cross stick and a tumbao patterned kick... and not just a bullshit attempt, the stuff is on, way more on than I believe a 1965 Ringo could play it.

If you listen to other 1965 period outtakes of the Beatles in the studio its clear the drumming is lagging, not on it, they're even adding tambourines to tighten up the groove. I could see a producer suggesting the need for tighter drum tracks, Ringo clearly is not on it. They couldn't digitally adjust tempos back then, they would bring in a drummer who could overdub.

So when I hear a Don Henely, or a Jim Keltner, or a Vinnie Coluita, I hear the same, or even a heightened level of proficiency in their playing now as I did years ago. When I listen to the IFF studio track and other 65' Ringo playing examples the levels of proficiency don't jive between the two.
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Do you think the moon landings were faked too?

Seems to me you've decide it wasnt Ringo playing and nothing will change that conspiracy theory
 
keirik said:
Do you think the moon landings were faked too?

Seems to me you've decide it wasnt Ringo playing and nothing will change that conspiracy theory
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Nail on the head i think. He was and is a great drummer. He has his own style, unlike most schooled and manufactured drummers now.

How can you tell what he is playing for certain on live recordings? The Beatles stopped live gigs very early in there career. Secondly the sound systems then were very poor so hearing what he played is open to interpretation. Thirdly, If he was trying to hold the band together, with no monitors, it is possible he decided on a simpler easier to follow straight beat.

Thirdly, he did the original so he can pretty much play what he wants on a song, when he wants.
 
Ringo didn't have that built in swing feel so many of his contemporaries in 1962 had. Sure, he had some swing, as was common in skiffle bands of his era, but he wasn't coming from that traditional jazz background.
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So true, and 'jazz' would include latin beats, which if you're experienced with them you'd easily be able to tell the drummer who played on the 65' studio example has a level of proficiency beyond a 1965 (or even later) Ringo. Never again does Ringo show any of those licks, any of that level of proficiency in his playing.

The IFF studio track is more latin flavored than rock, Ringo plays that song live without any of the extra touches the drummer on the studio cut laid down.

Live cuts of the Beatles/Ringo playing the song clearly show what Ringo does with his right hand and the tom accents on 'four-and'. Ringo never plays a cross stick live (more difficult) and again I could see it could 'possibly' be for audio reasons, but honestly I don't think he was even capable then, or even now for that matter. There's no examples of later years Ringo playing that song and laying down a groove like what's on the studio cut, he's just another rock drummer half assing it.

Ringo's bass drum pattern(s) live on IFF are inconclusive b/c of poor audio, tho looking at what else he's laying down with his hands, I would venture to say he's just playing quarter notes on the kick, not any of the tumbao'd stuff one hears on the 65' studio cut.


Seems to me you've decide it wasnt Ringo playing and nothing will change that conspiracy theory
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That's what you've decided, Im just stating what Im hearing on the IFF studio cut and the live examples of Ringo playing the song. I've played latin grooves for many years in many situations, I know the variances and can easily tell when I see/hear other drummers play these types of grooves where their level of proficiency lies, I can tell you I don't hear the same guy on the studio cut of IFF and the Beatles live examples.

Now 'if' the story was 65' Ringo recorded IFF in 69' for the first time, I may be more inclined to speculate he'd gotten better/improved with his latin stuff, but the timeline here suggests the opposite, which wouldn't make sense, latin chops don't degrade, no experienced drummer would dumb down a latin groove that much, especially after playing it with that level of respectability on the studio cut.


re: I Feel Fine.. There was also a comment that he wasn't playing the tom ruff.. but if you listen closely you can hear he actually plays it in the live video (crappy sound quality but.. it's there.) Pretty cool considering - it's not easy to play a one hand ruff with the left hand on a tom - at that speed - while also playing a one hand ruff on bell cymbal with the right hand pattern.
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I don't hear that nuance on any of the live cuts, just a straight 'four-and' on the tom. I'll listen again tho. What is clear is the fact that Ringo is not 'on it' groove wise with the beat placement in the live examples, its not a driving latin type groove (like on the studio cut), its some rock guy falling behind with his right hand, and again, never do you see him play a cross stick on that song some 50 years on.

Go spend some years playing latin grooves, get to the level of proficiency you hear on the isolated IFF studio cut, then tell me its the same drummer.

I would bet money that if tomorrow someone asked Bernard Purdie to play 'I Feel Fine' by the Beatles your mind would be blown.
 
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You are Bernard Purdie and I claim my £5

I can play "I feel fine" as the recording, no problem, and I am a rubbish drummer. Are you suggesting Ringo could never play as the record? Get real. Ringo did some of his best and most inventive work long after I feel fine was recorded.

It seems you are certain Ringo didn't play on quite a few of the Beatles songs, strange then that the rest of the band were keen to use him on there solo recordings long after the band split, when they could use any drummer they wanted.

You may think you were not influenced by Ringo, but you can bet some of the drummers that influenced you were, so by default you play a bit like Ringo.
 
Let's just contact Ringo and ask him directly. Does anyone have his e-mail address handy?
 
I heard a radio interview where John Lennon was asked why they chose Ringo as their drummer and he replied:
"best backbeat in the business!"

Also, someone posted John as saying in another interview that "Ringo wasn't the best drummer the Beatles had!". (sound of conspiracy violins here)... well I just got it - John's razor sharp wit at work once again,
If he said it, he was making a joke about Pete Best.. " ..wasn't the Best drummer " hahaa..
 
Deathmetalconga said:
Like .... who ...? Aside from me, I mean. I find his drumming simplistic, underdeveloped and dull as hell. Drummers love him because he is a surrogate for our insecurities about our instrument, since non-drummers tend to ridicule his musical contributions.
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I have no idea what any of the above means. Do you?
 
I can play "I feel fine" as the recording, no problem, and I am a rubbish drummer.
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Sure you can.


You may think you were not influenced by Ringo, but you can bet some of the drummers that influenced you were, so by default you play a bit like Ringo.
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You may think you were not influenced by Xenu, but plenty of people feel they are.



Let's just contact Ringo and ask him directly. Does anyone have his e-mail address handy?
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That'd be nice, someone close to him could fwd him this thread, maybe he'll be T'd off enough to respond.


Like .... who ...? Aside from me, I mean. I find his drumming simplistic, underdeveloped and dull as hell.
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Which kinda gives some credence to my point, the drummer on the IFF studio cut isn't that boring/dull, he's pretty accomplished, whereas Ringo is the guy for 50 years still bringing a bag of potato crisps to the pot luck.
 
mmulcahy1 said:
Let's just contact Ringo and ask him directly. Does anyone have his e-mail address handy?
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I emailed Ringo earlier today. This is his response.


Hello Jim:

Smashing to hear from you again!
Over the years there has been a lot of talk about how good I am at playing the drums.
This comes mostly from other drummers. I don’t bloody know why they care so much.
I suppose by analyzing my playing and comparing their playing to it, this somehow
helps them determine how good a drummer they are.
And of course, being who I am, I have a big target on my back.

I’m too bloody old to care about all of this nonsense. If they would just play with a band,
have a good time and help the band sound good,
they would discover that this is what playing drums is all about.

I would love to pop in and play some drums with you, but I am too engaged rehearsing
and touring the U.S. with my Twelfth All-Starr Band.

If you can Jim come out to Texas in October and we can have some brew and a little visit backstage before the show.

Have a good one mate.
Ringo


.
 
Hollywood Jim said:
I don’t bloody know why they care so much.

I suppose by analyzing my playing and comparing their playing to it, this somehow helps them determine how good a drummer they are. And of course, being who I am, I have a big target on my back.

I’m too bloody old to care about all of this nonsense. If they would just play with a band, have a good time and help the band sound good, they would discover that this is what playing drums is all about.
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Well said, Ringo :) It's all about the band sound and vibe and pleasing the other players, and yourself of course.

Thanks for posting, Jim.
 
Les Ismore said:
Sure you can.




You may think you were not influenced by Xenu, but plenty of people feel they are.





That'd be nice, someone close to him could fwd him this thread, maybe he'll be T'd off enough to respond.




Which kinda gives some credence to my point, the drummer on the IFF studio cut isn't that boring/dull, he's pretty accomplished, whereas Ringo is the guy for 50 years still bringing a bag of potato crisps to the pot luck.
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What BS....really.it gives ZERO credence to your post.Your whole point is that once he stops playing...he's no longer a drummer,and that's total BS.That's YOU'RE opinion,and not the majority.

Steve B
 
Les Ismore said:
Sure you can.




You may think you were not influenced by Xenu, but plenty of people feel they are. (Quote)





That'd be nice, someone close to him could fwd him this thread, maybe he'll be T'd off enough to respond.




Which kinda gives some credence to my point, the drummer on the IFF studio cut isn't that boring/dull, he's pretty accomplished, whereas Ringo is the guy for 50 years still bringing a bag of potato crisps to the pot luck.
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Soooo...Not only are you the current expert on what Ringo did and did not play, but also on what I can and can't play. Clever guy.
 
I've not chimed in here to date, mainly because I don't know enough about Ringo's playing to comment with any credibility. I grew up in Liverpool at the height of "Beatlemania", yet I don't especially like The Beatles. I have no real like or dislike of Ringo's playing either. I recognise The Beatles as eminent songsmiths, & Ringo as a part of that. They were a pop band, & a very good one, but just like many modern pop bands, the technical aspects of their delivery were fairly low down the list of priorities. They were young lads caught up in a promotional whirlwind where they had little control over anything frankly. Does anyone really believe Ringo was thinking "I must woodshed more to enhance my reputation amongst drummers on a future internet forum?"

I'm not even sure The Beatles were that groundbreaking either. Am I the only one who thinks The Beatles would have sounded completely different if it wasn't for the Everly Brothers?

There is a related area I can comment on from direct experience, & that's the playing of iconic simple song parts. I've lost count of the amount of times a drummer has belittled such a part only to royally suck at playing the part themselves, & that's almost irrespective of technical proficiency. Truth be known, I've fallen into that trap myself more times than I'd care to admit. The only difference being I was smart enough not to publicly proclaim how awesome I think I am prior to trying it. Many default to "making it their own" because they just can't nail that feel. You have to know, understand, & embrace the original feel before changing it in a convincing manner, & even then, only as part of an overall purposeful/deliberate shift in performance vibe at a band level.

The most difficult drum part I play is Floyd's "Comfortably Numb". Simple = yes, but to those who think they can do it in their sleep & make it sound good, post your results up here :)
 
Again, we don't have to ask Ringo because we've got google.

By take-7, you can begin to hear the album's drum part taking shape. Ruff on the toms, cross stick, ruff on the ride.
 
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Hollywood Jim said:
I emailed Ringo earlier today. This is his response.


Hello Jim:

Smashing to hear from you again!
Over the years there has been a lot of talk about how good I am at playing the drums.
This comes mostly from other drummers. I don’t bloody know why they care so much.
I suppose by analyzing my playing and comparing their playing to it, this somehow
helps them determine how good a drummer they are.
And of course, being who I am, I have a big target on my back.

I’m too bloody old to care about all of this nonsense. If they would just play with a band,
have a good time and help the band sound good,
they would discover that this is what playing drums is all about.

I would love to pop in and play some drums with you, but I am too engaged rehearsing
and touring the U.S. with my Twelfth All-Starr Band.

If you can Jim come out to Texas in October and we can have some brew and a little visit backstage before the show.

Have a good one mate.
Ringo


.
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Wow Jim - so you're a personal friend of Ringo? How cool is that?
 
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