Recording woes

[KenDoken]

Had a tough time in the studio the other day. I ended up feeling a bit overcooked and was disappointed with my performance. I have done very little studio recording and have yet to develop the right frame of mind

Last night we played a gig at a local bar. It was a breath of fresh air after the recording. I played much better and enjoyed the whole experience

Any sage words for how to prep and deal with the recording process?

 

[PorkPieGuy]

I don't know how you are recording, but try to play live with other bandmates if you can while you record. Do whatever it takes (within reason) to relax in the studio if you get uptight. Be sure to warm up before you record. Do a couple of trial runs of the song in the studio, and have the engineer record them in case you get a good take.

Oh yeah, and and before you go into the studio, practice the songs until you are sick of them, and then practice some more.

 

[bermuda]

That's known as Red Light Fever (from back when studios had a red light to indicate that recording was in progress.)

Confidence is the best way to combat nervousness and potential slip-ups. When you've practiced a part enough times and are confident about your ability to nail it... you will.

Same goes for a live performance. If you're confident about your parts, no audience size or legendary venue will make you nervous.

 

[C. Dave Run]

Yeah, what they said lol.

 

[ColdFusion]

I feel ya, being "in the studio", whether a real studio or a home recording rig, can feel suffocating sometimes. Your wording is very good, a very big part of it is your frame of mind. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood to wear headphones and mess with knobs and deal with clipping and listening real closely for micro mistakes in my playing.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that the reward of a good recording session is very satisfying and always worth the effort. I never really intended to get into recording, as I knew I wouldn't have a large budget for drum stuff. But once I got ahold of a Zoom recorder and V-kit I was able to jump right in.

I do take refreshing breaks from the claustrophobia of the recording room by going down to the acoustic room and letting it out. Just a pair of foam earplugs between me and the raw kit, and I'm feeling free again, lol.

Oh yeah, and and before you go into the studio, practice the songs until you are sick of them, and then practice some more.

Yeah totally, this might be the best advice. Not super "sagey" but super practical, literally. It will always go smoother for you in the studio (like on stage) if you know the material cold. That's one thing that makes budget home recording a challenge. Without any post-production ability to modify the time or tone, it forces you to be very honest about how tight you get that piece before you turn on the recording light.

Confidence is the best way to combat nervousness and potential slip-ups. When you've practiced a part enough times and are confident about your ability to nail it... you will.

And there's the sagey version, lol. Yes excellent, I love the addition of the word "confidence" here. The OP mentioned feeling "overcooked" in the studio. This may indicate that the whole time OP was in the studio felt like a struggle. He was "overworking", rather than having fun. Having a feeling of confidence in a recording situation will prevent those stressors from building up until you literally need to get out of there and go play in a bar, lol.

 

[Bo Eder]

I always think every time I go out I’m “in the studio”.

 

[jda]

minus the audience..
an engineer fella came and heard us the following day at a gig, the day after we were in his studio.
And he remarked " wow. why couldn't you guys play like that yesterday?"

And I just looked at him.

 

[s1212z]

This is what has worked for me.

1) Always go for 1st or 2nd takes

2) Have a stress free setup and engineer who knows the room and how to get great sounds quickly, which mean knowing your gear and being prepared. And anyone you are playing with, has like-mindedness to have the session feel easy and light. For home studio, sometimes you have to self engineer...hopefully you have a setup that is require minimal oversight if doing everthing yourself.

3) While I agree knowing the music to be extremely familiar is a plus, rehearsing or over-rehearsing I'm not a fan of, simply just because you stop taking chances in a studio take if so. If you have confidence in your abilities, you can always get through a take...but if you want to capture magic (which mean surprising your self as well), then you need some 'uncertainty' to have some playful risk and natural enthusiasm...if 'overcooked', sounds like a session slog of repeat takes of trying to get through it rather than inspired on something fresh.

4) I'm not a fan a click tracks...it's a practice & recording tool, I get it but I don't think it makes great music. In piecemealing projects require a click but never groove as hard as all musicians in the same room IME. I've encountered so many players with sloppy time (either recording before or after me) where these instance would happen and drummer has no control. Live music has natural crescendo and decrescendo but if the band is locked in, it is perfectly natural and grooves way harder.

5) Get comfortable with the headphone mix and not so blocked out, you can't hear your acoustics...headphones can be deceiving if blocking out too much and then you start to play differently to compensate

6) Playbacks are rough idea of what the final product will be. Once someone else has 'control' of your sound, then all sorts of things can happen (good or bad). Its a learning experience, I feel I comeback wiser after thinking about what didn't work as well and it could go better.

7) I much prefer a great sounding room with like a ribbon mic overhead and a few other extra mics than multitracking every component on the drumkit. It gives someone the power to completely change your expression of a life's work at the turn of a knob is just an absurd concept. Say what they want about Purdie but he said 'put the mic there' and I'll do the rest, and he was right, the drumset is a single instrument by a percussion conductor. You wouldn't individually mic every musician in a philharmonic orchestra and let some engineer override everything a conductor worked on, why do it for drummers is beyond me.

 

[cbphoto]

Any sage words for how to prep and deal with the recording process?

I’m not a very good composer so I need to have the music in my own studio for me to ‘shed with. I will play along to a tune dozens and dozens of times—while I’m recording myself—to hear what drums & cymbals to use, what I’m doing with them and what I need to change (No toms needed? Ditch ‘em. Their sympathetic vibrations muddy the sound.).

Once I know what I will be playing, I set up my DAW so that the tune loops while I record myself. This gives me multiple takes and from there I playback all takes and distill my part down to exactly what I want/need to play. Then I repeat the record/loop process until I’m satisfied. In this last session I limit myself to four takes. If I can’t get it by take #4, then I take a breather for a while or a day. I do this ’cuz I can tell when I’m slogging/wanna-get-it-over-with and when I’m playing with positive energy/attitude. While it’s nice to nail a tune in one take, there have been many times that I spliced takes together to make “the performance that never happened”.

For me, I found that Red Light Fever would choke me if I wasn’t fully prepared for the tune. That’s why I play along to a tune ad nauseam until I’ve got a solid idea of what to play. No guessing means no anxiety for me.

 

[KenDoken]

Thanks for the advice

The recording was done at a studio familiar to me although I have not recorded there. We had never met the engineer before but was impressed by his dedication, support and honesty. I did have a bit of a falling out with a photographer ( also lifelong friend ) during the proceedings which probably made my playing worse. All the recordings were done straight through with no overdubs in 1,2 or 3 takes. I felt fairly happy with the recordings at the time when hearing them through juicy Yamaha ns1000 monitors but revisiting them once at home was a bit horrific. My feeling was that I let down my band mates and engineer

Having read the article posted here:

One of the most important articles on technique (which doesn't talk about technique at all)

I just found this article on an old laptop of mine that was gathering dust. I read it around 2010, but it seems I wasn't prepared to understand it properly because I read it again today and it felt enlightening. It's from Hal Galper, a renowned jazz pianist (he has a few youtube lectures that...

www.drummerworld.com

I wonder if there is and attitude for recording that could be expensive to develop

 

[ColdFusion]

I felt fairly happy with the recordings at the time when hearing them through juicy Yamaha ns1000 monitors...

but revisiting them once at home was a bit horrific.

This is interesting, because I've discovered that our state of mind when we critique our own recordings can change radically, depending on our mood, and how long it's been since we last listened to it.

I may be objectively wrong, but I'd like to think maybe your recordings are somewhat better than "horrific", if for no other reason than there was a moment in the studio where you thought "yeah that works." It may have been the expensive speakers, maybe not. Perhaps you put on your drum-critic hat when you got home and tore it to pieces.

The reason I mention it is because I've had the reverse situation happen more than once. Sometimes when I'm working on a recording very intensely, I will get "too close" to it. In other words, I'm making objectively acceptable progress but I'm also getting impatient and becoming more strict with my standards as the session wears on. So by the end of a particularly grueling session I end up discarding the final version. Telling myself, "okay next time I'll make a good one".

After a few weeks or even months, I may stumble upon one of these rejected recordings, give it a listen and go "Woah tha's fire! And who dat on the kit!?"
In these moments I am actually a bit ashamed of my own "high standards" (again likely just my impatience). It seems that sometimes in my striving for a "perfect" recording I end up rejecting a whole bunch of damn decent ones. I think there's a philosophical saying about that.

To be fair I think most drummers feel like there isn't really an "acceptable" level of imperfection that any of us can settle for. Especially in the recording studio. The paradox is that even in embracing those good-enough recordings that I perhaps rejected hastily, it's still obvious to me that I can do better.

Incidentally this is a phenomenon that also happens to writers. They will shed on a piece of writing until they are certain there is no hope for it. They will put it away and maybe come across it after a long time has passed. In the time since they wrote it they have gotten "farther away" from it, so when they read it again they see it with fresh eyes, like a total stranger might. Now the author can see all the real skill and voice that they possess, which they couldn't see when they were still so close to it, and wearing their critic hat.

My feeling was that I let down my band mates and engineer

As a home-recording drummer, I can only imagine the extra stress that puts on you. This is another reason why it doesn't hurt to learn all of your material cold before stepping into a real studio. Also yeah, having the ability to record drum tracks in just a couple of takes or less is a no-joke skill that really does matter when you are paying for studio time.

You can probably exercise most of the studio muscles at home, like set yourself up for some low-key home drum tracking. You still get to experience most of the rigors of the studio (at least from the drummer's perspective) and there's no limit on the number of "takes" you can attempt in getting your final mix.

Home recording is just a stepping stone, hopefully along the way to being able to feel at home in a real studio. But if you can get those studio chops without feeling like you are letting everybody down, that could be an actual solution and a pathway to developing a bulletproof "studio state of mind".

 

[equipmentdork]

I might be stating the obvious, but recording and live playing are two completely different jobs, found that out the hard way in the 80s when I first began.

It's absolutely OK to have a bad day in the studio, could be anything from equipment problems(theirs or yours) or things NOT gelling despite tons of pre-production. I have played the same track very well one day and the next...not as well. Sometimes, it's a vibe.

Don't be afraid to listen to a rough mix and go back and woodshed the most basic of patterns; I did, and as silly as it felt, when I went back in to recut the track, we got it in 15 minutes.

The essential difference is the instantaneous feedback of a live crowd versus the microscope of the studio. Two totally different disciplines, slightly different skill set, no worries. you will get it!


Dan

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

I always think every time I go out I’m “in the studio”.

same here....

i love the studio, more than live honestly. I still sometimes get "red light fever", but mostly, i love hearing the raw stuff that is rough come to life. I also negate the red light fever by getting there early, and asking to help set up. I am the guy who is at every session....I love the whole process

and it definitely helps to do rhythm tracks "live".

what I would tell you is - like Bo said - to treat every time you play - even practice at home - like the tape is rolling.
Use a met/click all the time
Be able to play the song structures by yourself, while the music is going through your head. I have done many projects where I was the only one laying drum tracks, and I had to "hear" the other parts in my head while recording.
Write out a phrase chart.
Arrange some rehearsals where it is just you and the bass player, or you and the guitarists....isolate things down to make sure you all know who is doing what.
Make sure that song structures are solid before going in.
Don't make "game time decisions" about parts you have written; the studio is the worst place to rethink things
Don't leave anything to question once the red light is on.
Make sure that your equipment is in the best shape it can be, including no squeaks in hardware/pedals.
NO SIGNIFICANT OTHERS or non-bandmate friends. I can't tell you how many times things went downhill when people were in there when they shouldn't be. Often times the engineer will tell riff-raff to go hang in the lounge....
Don't let people force you into takes that you know are going to be worthless. I have had a few "producers" tell me to do it again, but with more passion man .... if you have prepared well, natural "umph" will come out. 4th or 5th takes - at least from what I have experienced, are just wastes of time.
Be ready to be asked if you can move things a little bit to accomodate microphone placement, but in the same way, don't get talked into thigns that will pull you out of your comfort zone. The engineers job is to get your best take and performance...NOT to try out his new gear, or to make you play the way they would have
in the same vein, let them work their magic as well. I have had many times where I got to a studio and instead of using my drum set, we used some beat up, old war torn set....that sounded AMAZING
DEFINITELY go into the control room to listen to takes; I would also be wary of having "too many sets of ears" in the room when you do this. While I respected my bandmates decisions, I usually only had the engineer and my bass player listening to takes. After I sifted it down to one, then everyone else came in

there are tons of other ones as well, but these - for me - are sort of the foundational ones

 

[Stickman]

Ya one of the best jazz drummers in town here.. whenever I hear him play - it sounds like a great recording! He just has the touch, the sound and dynamics down cold.. killer drummer.. exciting to watch and listen to. I try to follow the same philosophy.. if you play with the right energy and dynamics and make it sound interesting.. it should work in both live and studio.
But be prepared use a click, relax and have fun!

 

[equipmentdork]

same here....

i love the studio, more than live honestly. I still sometimes get "red light fever", but mostly, i love hearing the raw stuff that is rough come to life. I also negate the red light fever by getting there early, and asking to help set up. I am the guy who is at every session....I love the whole process

and it definitely helps to do rhythm tracks "live".

what I would tell you is - like Bo said - to treat every time you play - even practice at home - like the tape is rolling.
Use a met/click all the time
Be able to play the song structures by yourself, while the music is going through your head. I have done many projects where I was the only one laying drum tracks, and I had to "hear" the other parts in my head while recording.
Write out a phrase chart.
Arrange some rehearsals where it is just you and the bass player, or you and the guitarists....isolate things down to make sure you all know who is doing what.
Make sure that song structures are solid before going in.
Don't make "game time decisions" about parts you have written; the studio is the worst place to rethink things
Don't leave anything to question once the red light is on.
Make sure that your equipment is in the best shape it can be, including no squeaks in hardware/pedals.
NO SIGNIFICANT OTHERS or non-bandmate friends. I can't tell you how many times things went downhill when people were in there when they shouldn't be. Often times the engineer will tell riff-raff to go hang in the lounge....
Don't let people force you into takes that you know are going to be worthless. I have had a few "producers" tell me to do it again, but with more passion man .... if you have prepared well, natural "umph" will come out. 4th or 5th takes - at least from what I have experienced, are just wastes of time.
Be ready to be asked if you can move things a little bit to accomodate microphone placement, but in the same way, don't get talked into thigns that will pull you out of your comfort zone. The engineers job is to get your best take and performance...NOT to try out his new gear, or to make you play the way they would have
in the same vein, let them work their magic as well. I have had many times where I got to a studio and instead of using my drum set, we used some beat up, old war torn set....that sounded AMAZING
DEFINITELY go into the control room to listen to takes; I would also be wary of having "too many sets of ears" in the room when you do this. While I respected my bandmates decisions, I usually only had the engineer and my bass player listening to takes. After I sifted it down to one, then everyone else came in

there are tons of other ones as well, but these - for me - are sort of the foundational ones

So much great advice here! Know your parts cold, don't let the engineer try to produce your track(indeed, ONE person should be the producer, otherwise it's chaos). And for GAD'S SAKE, no one else but the band should be there, and even then, only the personnel necessary. Hangers-on, girlfriends/boyfriends, even sometimes other band members whose parts are done....all no es bueno. It just takes a few people to create a terrible atmosphere and make a tense situation worse. People talking during takes and important playbacks. OY. They're not supposed to be there.

The only other thing I can suggest is to always rough mix at the end of a session. Always know where you are in the process and be able to review what was done that day, even if it was a minor percussion overdub. No need to spend time mixing, just export what you have for reference.


Dan

 

[Juniper]

Recoding really can be sometimes interesting. I absolutely love the studio for a number of reasons.

However, ‘red light fever’ really is a thing and the key to feel less caught up in it sometimes is all in the preparation.

Personally, I’d always over prepare ahead of going into the studio. When I think I’d rehearsed enough I’d rehearse even more. With the band and alone. Often just playing the song(s) from memory, solely with a metronome for company.

I try to get things down live rather than fix in post production. Sometimes though that isn’t possible for whatever reason.

Sometimes too you will get ear fatigue in the control room, in that you’ll only notice some issues whilst listening to playbacks hours later, or the next day when your ears are fresh.

You also can’t control how your bandmates will react to recording issues.

I’ve also been in situations where a bandmate will get into a funk, not able to play a simple part they can easily play with their eyes closed normally and before you know it an hour or two has passed without much progress and the pressure is really on everyone, with the clock ticking and characters tested.

Then that red light fever can sometimes trickle down to other band members.

Once, years ago, I had a bandmate who was really solid normally, someone who was a one or two take guy suddenly not able to sing an opening line of a song / pitch correctly, which then took them about an hour to get down.

It was bizarre but we laughed through it. I still have the videos.

The important thing is to take short breaks (and even use humour) and not worry too much if you make mistakes and if it’s not going as smooth as you’d like.

Sometimes I’ve personally made mistakes and my bandmates / the engineer have wanted to keep said take for whatever reason, which is frustrating as it means I can’t listen to the song ever again without wincing.

There’s one song I recorded with slightly out of time cowbell hits that I still can’t listen to years later, the band liked them lazy as it gave them a Rolling Stones vibe . They also wanted them on 1 & 3 as opposed to 2 & 4 too. I hate the whole thing but I got outvoted by the band & engineer.

What can you do!

It happens, it’s not the end of the world. The average person doesn’t overthink or analyse / dissect the music in the same way we do. Most won’t notice mistakes.

Just listen to Led Zeppelin and listen out for mistakes, mic bleeds or bum notes on their recordings.

It’s music, it’s supposed to have a human element. It’s no big deal.

However, my advice is to over prepare. Go into the studio environment knowing 100% that you’ve put the work in. That helps a lot with confidence and any nerves that could affect your performance. If you still hit stumbling blocks focus on navigating past them (ie how can we fix this?) rather than focusing on any negative feelings.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

more great advice in the posts above!!!

one thing I alos used to do when I was the engineer is to have them run through the song once to "get final levels and a headphone mix"....and then hit record without telling them. A lot of the time, that is one of the best takes of the day.

the guy who records my surf-punk band rolls the tape the whole time without telling us. i learned my trick from him.

 

[KenDoken]

Thanks again people

Here's the recordings ( warts n all )

Blue Seven

Play Blue Seven on SoundCloud and discover followers on SoundCloud | Stream tracks, albums, playlists on desktop and mobile.

m.soundcloud.com

These were never recorded for sale, just demos for event promoters and to introduce my band mates to a different studio. I'm starting to come to terms with them now and have found the whole thing a good learning experience

 

[Chris Whitten]

The difference between live and recording is that live is 'in the moment' and recording is forever.
You can get away with all kinds of inaccuracies live which are not acceptable on a recording which will live for years.
A lot of the above advice is good. No extra personnel, no photographers (video makers etc).
I prefer to record drums with as little else going on. I find a take is only as good as the worst band member. So I might have recorded my best take while the keyboardist or bassist are still trying to get their bits right. I find the process distracting.
Also, every time I record I get the engineer/producer to record a proper take early on. I then listen back to it and (always) find things I don't like in my playing and will remove from my next take (hopefully the keeper).
No one is born a great studio player. It takes practice and experience. So if you are only recording one or two days a year, or every second year, it's going to be hard to achieve greatness.
The trick for me is to take the recording mentality into live work. So I don't accept sloppy playing or mistakes in myself when playing live.

 

[Erberderber]

Recoding really can be sometimes interesting. I absolutely love the studio for a number of reasons.

However, ‘red light fever’ really is a thing and the key to feel less caught up in it sometimes is all in the preparation.

Personally, I’d always over prepare ahead of going into the studio. When I think I’d rehearsed enough I’d rehearse even more. With the band and alone. Often just playing the song(s) from memory, solely with a metronome for company.

I try to get things down live rather than fix in post production. Sometimes though that isn’t possible for whatever reason.

Sometimes too you will get ear fatigue in the control room, in that you’ll only notice some issues whilst listening to playbacks hours later, or the next day when your ears are fresh.

You also can’t control how your bandmates will react to recording issues.

I’ve also been in situations where a bandmate will get into a funk, not able to play a simple part they can easily play with their eyes closed normally and before you know it an hour or two has passed without much progress and the pressure is really on everyone, with the clock ticking and characters tested.

Then that red light fever can sometimes trickle down to other band members.

Once, years ago, I had a bandmate who was really solid normally, someone who was a one or two take guy suddenly not able to sing an opening line of a song / pitch correctly, which then took them about an hour to get down.

It was bizarre but we laughed through it. I still have the videos.

The important thing is to take short breaks (and even use humour) and not worry too much if you make mistakes and if it’s not going as smooth as you’d like.

Sometimes I’ve personally made mistakes and my bandmates / the engineer have wanted to keep said take for whatever reason, which is frustrating as it means I can’t listen to the song ever again without wincing.

There’s one song I recorded with slightly out of time cowbell hits that I still can’t listen to years later, the band liked them lazy as it gave them a Rolling Stones vibe . They also wanted them on 1 & 3 as opposed to 2 & 4 too. I hate the whole thing but I got outvoted by the band & engineer.

What can you do!

It happens, it’s not the end of the world. The average person doesn’t overthink or analyse / dissect the music in the same way we do. Most won’t notice mistakes.

Just listen to Led Zeppelin and listen out for mistakes, mic bleeds or bum notes on their recordings.

It’s music, it’s supposed to have a human element. It’s no big deal.

However, my advice is to over prepare. Go into the studio environment knowing 100% that you’ve put the work in. That helps a lot with confidence and any nerves that could affect your performance. If you still hit stumbling blocks focus on navigating past them (ie how can we fix this?) rather than focusing on any negative feelings.

Great post. A bass player I was recording with got in a massive stew and just couldn't play what previously was a walk in the park for him. He got so wound up, he punched the wall. I'd never seen him like that before.

I agree that to combat this, you practice so much that even when in a pressured situation, you just do it automatically. We were doing a live-from-the-floor recording and everyone was jittery and some songs needed tons of takes, which made me more tense too as I was constantly expecting someone to screw up sooner or later. Time was ticking by and we felt the weekend slipping through our fingers. I just wish I could have recorded alone from memory as you said you do, that way I'd be solely focussed on what I was doing and not worrying about anyone else. That couldn't happen as it wasn't in the original agreement.