Paiste 2002 for acoustic jazz?

Paul Blood

Junior Member
Would you play straight ahead jazz/swing in an acoustic combo with this cymbal?

The drummer in the video plays some jazz time at 3:20.

What do you think?

 

PaisteGuy

Active Member
In a previous post by Bo, You mentioned really loving the sound of this cymbal. If you play it with the dynamics that Garrett does in the section You pointed out, then I say go for it. It works. Paiste has recently introduced 18” and 20” Flat Rides in the 2002 line, and they fit IMHO.

 
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Soulfinger

Senior Member
Sounds fine although a 24" might be a bit overwhelming for acoustic jazz (never played one myself).

2002s were very popular with jazz players in the 70s and 80s, particularly the Sound Edge hats, the 18" Crash and the 20" Ride. Have a look:

I´m using 14" SE or Medium Hi Hats/18" Crash/20" Ride (all current red labels) every now and then for jazz. Great cymbals. Wouldn´t mind a 20" Medium...
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I see the 2002’s as the Paiste equivalent of the Zildjian A. Although they were different from A’s, they nonetheless competed with them as they were the two most common pro cymbals you’d see being used by everybody who was anybody in the 70s. That crisp ride cymbal heard on Steely Dans’ “Black Cow” was a 2002 20” ride played by Victor Feldman, and in that context I’d say they’d be great for jazz too.
 

Paul Blood

Junior Member
I see the 2002’s as the Paiste equivalent of the Zildjian A. Although they were different from A’s, they nonetheless competed with them as they were the two most common pro cymbals you’d see being used by everybody who was anybody in the 70s. That crisp ride cymbal heard on Steely Dans’ “Black Cow” was a 2002 20” ride played by Victor Feldman, and in that context I’d say they’d be great for jazz too.
I always thought that Paul Humphrey played on Black Cow, and Victor Feildman played vibes, marimba and maybe keys on that album ( Aja)
I remember seeing Paul Humphrey every week on the Lawrence Welk show too.
 

planoranger

Junior Member
A lot of my cymbal choices are determined by context. To my ears that cymbal that Paul is referring to would sound perfect for me in a quintet or sextet setting. If I'm playing in a big band, I would want a brighter sounding cymbal to cut through the horns. Maybe it's the cymbal that I've grown accustomed to, but I also like that same brighter cymbal when I play in a piano trio setting as well.
 

Mediocrefunkybeat

Platinum Member
Ultimately it's about what you're comfortable playing. If you develop a touch that works well on 2oo2s then there's nothing wrong with it. If you prefer a slightly brighter sound then why not?

After all, if Jack DeJohnette can play his pan lids and sound that freaking great then why couldn't somebody else play 2oo2s? No hard and fast rules here - just conventions.
 

Paul Blood

Junior Member
I stand corrected! Paul Humphrey. Whoops!
Hey but you were right about a lot of the jazz drummer back in the 70s were playing A’s. Buddy Rich and Louis Bellson come to mind, and I’m sure there’s a huge list of others.
 
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Paul Blood

Junior Member
Someone brought up an interesting point, that a 24 inch ride maye too loud in an acoustic group.

Does the size of a cymbal have that much of an effect on its loudness? I mean if you were playing with the same touch on a 20, 22, or 24 inch ride would thre really be any difference? I really don’t know!
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Hey but you were right about a lot of the jazz drummer back in the 70s were playing A’s. Buddy Rich and Louis Bellson come to mind, and I’m sure there’s a huge list of others.
I don’t think Louie or Buddy ever played Paiste, but people Art Blakey, Michael Carvin, and Joe Morello (among other jazz notables) were listed in the Paiste set-ups book from 1975. But the Formula 602 was also big amongst the jazzers too.
 

Paul Blood

Junior Member
I don’t think Louie or Buddy ever played Paiste, but people Art Blakey, Michael Carvin, and Joe Morello (among other jazz notables) were listed in the Paiste set-ups book from 1975. But the Formula 602 was also big amongst the jazzers too.
I meant to say Buddy Rich, Louis Bellson, and a lot of other jazz drummers were using A Zildjian cymbals back in the 70’s .
 

Su2j

New Member
Billy Mintz is another one-- last time I saw him he was using these two 22" 2002s.

Wow, I have Billy Mintz’s drum book Different Drummers, but haven’t checked out his playing. It’s nice to know that he sounds great.

Two of the same model of any cymbal is pretty bold, let alone two 22” 2002s
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
Someone brought up an interesting point, that a 24 inch ride maye too loud in an acoustic group.

Does the size of a cymbal have that much of an effect on its loudness? I mean if you were playing with the same touch on a 20, 22, or 24 inch ride would thre really be any difference? I really don’t know!

I had a Dream Bliss 24" ride that was pretty easy to control and didn't read as loud because the pitch was fairly low and it was really dry. A really washy 24 might not seem loud per se but might be overpowering as the wash builds up. But as weight increases and the more cut a ride has it's more likely to be perceived as loud even if it isn't more decibels.
 

Paul Blood

Junior Member
I had a Dream Bliss 24" ride that was pretty easy to control and didn't read as loud because the pitch was fairly low and it was really dry. A really washy 24 might not seem loud per se but might be overpowering as the wash builds up. But as weight increases and the more cut a ride has it's more likely to be perceived as loud even if it isn't more decibels.
I agree. I think that heavy / bright 20 inch ride could be perceived as louder than a thin and dark 24 inch wide.
 

johnjssmith

Junior Member
Does the size of a cymbal have that much of an effect on its loudness? I mean if you were playing with the same touch on a 20, 22, or 24 inch ride would thre really be any difference? I really don’t know!
In my experience it mainly depends on the weight: the more material vibrates the higher the resulting volume is, so for three rides from the same cymbal series a 24" is going the be the loudest by a noticeable margin unless you play it much more softly than the 20".
 

Paul Blood

Junior Member
In my experience it mainly depends on the weight: the more material vibrates the higher the resulting volume is, so for three rides from the same cymbal series a 24" is going the be the loudest by a noticeable margin unless you play it much more softly than the 20".
That makes sense. I wonder if anyone’s ever gotten out a decibel meter to measure to measure different cymbals from the same series ?
 
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