Do any drummers actually enjoy performing on e-kits?

Chris Whitten said:
First, that was 5 years ago. Second, he's using battery not Superior, he also has two set ups one as complete redundancy. How many forumites want to carry that?
Battery is much more electronica focussed than Superior. That's what you want on a show like Shakira. It isn't generally deeply multi-sampled kits.
2022 video (Morrisey), no computers, no VST's, just a multi-pad triggering samples (not particularly drum related).
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Jeez you must always want to be correct.
First I never said he used Superior, I just stated that he used VSTs live, and he is far from the only one. Way before him many other bands used samples live. And second you can get Electronica samples in Superior there is a package just for that.

www.toontrack.com

Electronic EZX

A mind-blowing collection of classic, circuit bent and resampled electronic drum sounds.
www.toontrack.com www.toontrack.com

I know it's and EZ drummer expansion but of course that can be used with Superior.

I don't know how people set up their computers but I have never had mine crash when using a VST, I played for hours and had no issues, I could easily play a gig with just one laptop and one module, of course I could also just get the Mimic Pro module and not have to use a laptop at all. Also do you think Brandon carries his own drums?
 
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doggyd69b said:
Brandon Buckley (Shakira's drummer) does.


I personally would not hesitate to use VSTs at a gig, I have never once had my computer crash because of a VSt, As a matter of fact I think in my whole computer life, I have only had a computer crash on me about 4 times ever. If the laptop thing scares you still, then Pearl Mimic pro would be the way to go.
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I thought it was interesting that he uses both in ears monitors, and a standard speaker and sub. I think this may help with emptiness that both I and my band mates felt with the e-drums just running through the ear buds.
 
doggyd69b said:
Jeez you must always want to be correct.
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You are apparently a stranger to nuance.
I said no one I knew of used software LIKE Superior in a live context. 'LIKE' being multi-sampled, round robins, largely acoustic drum sounds.
In a modern pop show, many drummers use Ableton Live and VST's more focussed on electronic sounds and one shot samples.
Again, nuance..... yes, I have never had a computer crash on me using EZDrummer or Superior in my home studio. That is different to taking a similar rig on the road, where accidents happen, power surges or it goes off without warning....also the show must go on. If anything crashes in my home studio I just turn it all off and go and have a coffee. That's why Buckley has two of everything. The discussion is about slightly smaller level bands and church musicians - do they want to spend 2 x to have a usable VST rig with redundancy?
In Buckley's latest rig there is no VST, no computer.
Also please stop describing Superior and EZdrummer to me. I have worked with Toontrack producing EZdrummer and Superior expansions. I know them extremely well.
 
Paul Blood said:
I thought it was interesting that he uses both in ears monitors, and a standard speaker and sub. I think this may help with emptiness that both I and my band mates felt with the e-drums just running through the ear buds.
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You could use a butt kicker (or the other brand I can't recall at this moment) but yes for the other band members a monitor is useful to at least feel the kick, there is something to be said about that feedback because even though they can hear it from their in-ears, it just feels better when you can also feel it because of the monitor. But, silent stages are becoming more common now.
 
Chris Whitten said:
You are apparently a stranger to nuance.
I said no one I knew of used software LIKE Superior in a live context. 'LIKE' being multi-sampled, round robins, largely acoustic drum sounds.
In a modern pop show, many drummers use Ableton Live and VST's more focussed on electronic sounds and one shot samples.
Again, nuance..... yes, I have never had a computer crash on me using EZDrummer or Superior in my home studio. That is different to taking a similar rig on the road, where accidents happen, power surges or it goes off without warning....also the show must go on. If anything crashes in my home studio I just turn it all off and go and have a coffee. That's why Buckley has two of everything. The discussion is about slightly smaller level bands and church musicians - do they want to spend 2 x to have a usable VST rig with redundancy?
In Buckley's latest rig there is no VST, no computer.
Also please stop describing Superior and EZdrummer to me. I have worked with Toontrack producing EZdrummer and Superior expansions. I know them extremely well.
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No, not stranger to nuance, you just like to pick parts of what I say and ignore the entire context for unknown to me reasons and then try to "educate" me as if I didn't know anything.

I was aware of your work with TT, so I figured you would definitely know that they have those expansions I never described the product to you. but the discussion was never about what type of music someone using electronic drums would play, it was about ANYONE enjoying playing electronic drums live.
Also why would any drummer that can have a drum tech would use software to simulate acoustic drums? is not like he would be worried about portability, so yes the only reason to use that would be to produce sounds not possible to be played with acoustic drums for example Neil Peart playing glass breaking sounds and some other percussion that would be impractical to have on stage (drum tech or not).
I know he didn't use VST's live because again a simple drum module could provide those samples. Now about a small band taking VSTs on the road, I don't see why that would be a problem. If the power failed, all instruments would stop, and for a lot of bands using laptops live for backing tracks, the whole show would stop until the laptop was rebooted. It happens to pro's too and they handle it just fine.
And there are lots of band using a single laptop to provide the entire concert with backing tracks, those bands don't have roadies but do tour Europe, South America and Asia so not like they are just super small level. (I know Devin is a higher level than those bands but occasionally he does tour with some of them).

 
doggyd69b said:
No, not stranger to nuance, you just like to pick parts of what I say and ignore the entire context for unknown to me reasons and then try to "educate" me as if I didn't know anything.
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No, in the context of the discussion - a couple of guys being asked to play electronic drums, one by a band leader, one in church - I would not recommend triggering complex software from a laptop.
Also, like the last time you argued with me - I never tried to 'educate' you. I pointed out many drummers use v-drums live, especially in conjunction with their acoustic drums, triggered from their kit and with external pads. Butch Vig plays v-drums exclusively.
If you are in a hybrid situation in a mainstream pop band, you might have a laptop for loops and sequences, also triggering some one shot samples.
 
doggyd69b said:
Now about a small band taking VSTs on the road, I don't see why that would be a problem. If the power failed, all instruments would stop, and for a lot of bands using laptops live for backing tracks, the whole show would stop until the laptop was rebooted. It happens to pro's too and they handle it just fine.
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Well I've never seen anyone recommend powering a whole kit...or a whole show from a laptop WITHOUT having a back up, in line ready to take over. The whole selling point of v-drums is that they are practically fool proof.
 
Chris Whitten said:
Well I've never seen anyone recommend powering a whole kit...or a whole show from a laptop WITHOUT having a back up, in line ready to take over. The whole selling point of v-drums is that they are practically fool proof.
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I also didn't say anyone is powering a whole show from a single laptop, I said I know of many bands that tour internationally that use a single laptop for backing tracks and to trigger light changes via midi. This saves them from having to hire a light operator and allows for the lights to work based on the song changes. The lights are usually rented between the 3 or 4 bands that are on the tour so they all get to use them. They plan their shows so that minimal changes occur onstage once the main things are setup. Yes One single laptop is much more common than you would think.
 
Chris Whitten said:
Well I've never seen anyone recommend powering a whole kit...or a whole show from a laptop WITHOUT having a back up, in line ready to take over. The whole selling point of v-drums is that they are practically fool proof.
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As we both agree, there is no point on anyone using electronic drums with a VST to emulate acoustic drums (anyone in a professional setting) because using a regular acoustic kit with mics would not be an issue. We also agree that the ones that would use a setup like that most likely be bands playing in a small bar/casino were due to noise an acoustic set is not recommended but yet they still want to sound great (emulate a perfectly miced acoustic) in that case it makes sense. You also stated that you have never had your computer crash when triggering a VST. Granted your drums and computer live in the studio, I moved my drums to a few different places and never had an issue. just have a decent laptop (reliable and cleaned of unnecessary apps and processes) and if power failure was an issue then you could put a UPS in your rack, that will get you through the rest of the song. I don't know why everyone seems to think that system is so unreliable, it is not. Of course nothing is perfect so something will fail at some point. In 35+ years of playing live I have never had a power issue.
 
I’ve witnessed some absolute train wrecks when drummers turn up with full e-kits. Usually the all conquering sounds the e drummer thinks are good sound pretty awful through a PA. Could be the FoH or could be the e kit unit or both.
For me the technology still isn’t there for most e kits in terms of dynamics. I have not yet witnessed a Pearl mimic pro or TD-50 to say whether these modules/kits are now so good it’s possible to literally plug and play without a big perception mismatch. For me loud gig 22 kick quiet gig 18” kick, medium gig 20 kick etc.
 
Captain Bash said:
I’ve witnessed some absolute train wrecks when drummers turn up with full e-kits. Usually the all conquering sounds the e drummer thinks are good sound pretty awful through a PA. Could be the FoH or could be the e kit unit or both.
For me the technology still isn’t there for most e kits in terms of dynamics. I have not yet witnessed a Pearl mimic pro or TD-50 to say whether these modules/kits are now so good it’s possible to literally plug and play without a big perception mismatch. For me loud gig 22 kick quiet gig 18” kick, medium gig 20 kick etc.
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Usually what happens is that those drummers program their modules using headphones. Since the sound is only coming from the headphones, room ambience is added via the module, and the kit then sounds great.
The reason that same kit sounds bad in a live situation is because the venue will have its natural ambience, if you add to that the extra ambience you had from your module, now you have two conflicting sounds fighting each other.
On top of that, a lot of drummers that play along recorded tracks tend to turn up their cymbals a lot because they usually get lost in the mix. This results in cymbals that are way too loud for playing live.
If they learn to disable or turn down the ambience and turn down their cymbals, they will sound a lot better, and will also have a much easier time getting good dynamics.
So one kit for headphones, and a similar but modified one for live.
 
I use a TD-20 at church. Mostly because the bass, guitar, and aux musicians are basically standing on top of the kit. Also, Myself and the bassist are the only ones consistently using in ears.

I don't use any custom sounds, but played with most settings to get a good sound.

We live stream and apparently the hi hat is VERY loud compared to other modules.

Butch Vig uses all Roland with Garbage and his custom sounds seem to mix well.
 
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Captain Bash said:
I’ve witnessed some absolute train wrecks when drummers turn up with full e-kits. Usually the all conquering sounds the e drummer thinks are good sound pretty awful through a PA. Could be the FoH or could be the e kit unit or both.
For me the technology still isn’t there for most e kits in terms of dynamics. I have not yet witnessed a Pearl mimic pro or TD-50 to say whether these modules/kits are now so good it’s possible to literally plug and play without a big perception mismatch. For me loud gig 22 kick quiet gig 18” kick, medium gig 20 kick etc.
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It’s gotten a million times better than it used to be, though.
 

there ya agoo.. DeeW weee

www.sweetwater.com

DW DWe 5-piece Drum Kit Bundle - Curly Maple Burst

5-piece Wireless Acoustic/Electronic Drum Set with 10" and 12" Toms, 16" Floor Tom, 22" Bass Drum, 14" Snare, 14" Hi-hat, 2 x 16" Crash/Rides, 18" Crash/Ride, and 5000 Series Hardware - Curly Maple Burst
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The funny part is, after watching this video I realized DWe finally recreated some of the goodness of the Hart Dynamics kits. The 2pc cymbals are a mere copy and well, the heads seem more responsive. So 20 years later after Roland panicked about the Hart Dynamics competitive threat, buys DW to build a new and improved ekit and comes up with Hart Dynamics. lol. In typical DW/Roland fashion however, the price is 5x or more over where HD would have been, even with inflation.

But…Nick could make coke cans sound amazing!
 
I'm impressed, really, by the sound and the features (wireless, sense of the throw off,...)
 
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