Cymbal series less likely to crack.

2 hit wonder

Junior Member
I've changed bands to 1 that wants lots of volume at times and just cracked a 17" Sabian AAX Stage crash.

What series of cymbal still has a good voice and is less likely to die from a heavy hand? A local drummer once replied that his cymbal at a jam probably couldn't be broken by the person playing it.
 
you know cymbals don't crack alone by hand pressure

I find they crack two ways. Handling in set up or tear down -if an edge is nicked that may/could lead to an inward crack and two; when struck hard forcefully- the 'back bend' against the 'stem of the cymbal stand' will crack them in a remote area along the weakest of lathe lines.

Could hit a cymbal properly suspended with no resistance with a wood stick for probably 100 years and 12,000 dozen of sticks will break first.
It is not "which" (cymbal) it's more how it's handled and realizing it's up against an immovable object the cymbal stand stem.

Maybe a light brilliant crash with no lathe lines but banged flipped against a Stem with a cap (wingnut) on top it'll remote crack eventually too. It's trapped between a rock and a hard place. Just a fact of it's life.
Also a slight drop on a concrete floor even a 4 or 5" drop will could start a nick and inward issue
but a wood stick alone doesn't break them

It's the captive back bend or the concrete drop
in all but the rarest cases
 
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now that above (to me is B20.

B8 alloy I think is soft and will bend. Bend- bend- bend before it cracks.
(Can't think I ever saw a B8 cymbal with say a 'lathe crack" (that wasn't a china) (and I can't recall seeing that often either)
I might be wrong . You may get more miles from a B8 - say 2oo2 cymbal- that will bend. B20 isn't that cool with or good with bending.
 
I have to have a big sound. One that projects. Wondering if small ones will project?
That guy who said his cymbal prob can't be broken in play is using a smaller diameter one.

Nothing was mishandled. It was force of a spontaneous strike at full volume. I've never heard a B8 that I liked. I've heard a B8 ride that I didn't hate and could actually tolerate, but I wouldn't buy it at retail.

I don't wanna break another Paiste Signature Fast Crash, but it sounds so good to not play.
 
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I've never heard a B8 that I liked. I've heard a B8 ride that I didn't hate and could actually tolerate, but I wouldn't buy it at retail.
and therein lies the " Be careful next time with technique:)
Bashing against cymbal stand stems
No B20 can withstand the errr...stand.
the Back-Swings on a captive stem, will get em every time.

I busted a new K Con 18 one evening on-purpose
it wasn't giving me what I wanted- So I murdered it- in cold Bronze.
Back slammed swung it against the stem-- it swung hard and remote body cracked.
Zildjian replaced it under warranty (shouldn't have or didn't "have" to) (I had a good dealer)
 
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Every crash cymbal I've ever cracked in 35 years has either been a cheaper B8 cymbal, or a heavier cymbal. Cheap B8 cymbals are brittle and don't have the ability to ripple and flex, which leads to breakage. Thinner cymbals speak more quickly and flex more on the hit, so they are better at distributing force along their entire body. Also, if the cymbals are being mounted too tightly on the stand, or at too much of an angle, the force of a hit can't be fully distributed and makes it more likely it will crack. Finally, consider how the cymbal is being hit, and where it's positioned. If the hit is going through the cymbal instead of along or across the cymbal, it's more likely that it won't be able to take the hits over time.

Smaller cymbals have higher pitches, but they don't displace enough air to project in the same way that larger ones do. You're probably more likely to break a smaller cymbal by getting it to do something it physically can't do, which is beat a guitar stack.

I get the wanting lots of volume thing - it feels great and it would probably actually kill your guitarist to turn down. In which case, you probably need to be miked up. Drums and cymbals by themselves can never compete with a Marshall half-stack at 11, especially in a small, enclosed space. An added benefit of miking up is that you can use in-ear monitors to hear yourself at a comfortable volume, which means you never overplay your gear competing with a guitar. And here's the other thing - the stage volume is never what the crowd hears unless they are standing on stage with you. The real sound is in front-of-house. Overloud stage volume turns into mud and is difficult to separate into a listenable mix.

Even if you're just garage banding it for now, there's no reason to consistently play at 11. It's hard on gear, makes enemies of your neighbors, and kills everyone's hearing. I recognize that's not a battle that can be won in every case, but I firmly believe it. It's one thing to be breaking cymbals when touring arenas. It's quite another to be breaking cymbals playing in a a garage - an expensive thing.
 
Yeah, we're outdoors all Summer and we mic'd toms for 2 shows but they dropped those now. Only the kick, now. Why we quit, idk.
Everything doesn't need volume. It's the few that do where the danger is.

Most of the show is normal effort and volume. Motown's version of Get Ready, Cheap Trick or Molly Hatchett's Dreams don't need volume. But there are several that do: Running Down a Dream, Fire and Water by Free, Painted Horse by Anthony Gomes and Mother by Danzig do. The way we do them, they do. One of those is what broke my cymbal. I sorta remember when it might have happened.

The singer/leader, 35 years playing this town and even toured for long time wants stage volume to get inspired. He thrives on snare and kick volume on the songs that are jumpers. He doesn't want the monitors to do it and I'll do it because.they get good work and I'm fine doing what's required.

Guitar player plays a 15 to 30 Watt Hughes and Ketner with a single 12" speaker, I think. Bass is a Rumble 500.
 
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The singer/leader, 35 years playing this town and even toured for long time wants stage volume to get inspired. He thrives on snare and kick volume on the songs that are jumpers. He doesn't want the monitors to do it and I'll do it because.they get good work and I'm fine doing what's required.
All well and good, except that acoustically drums can't keep up with amps. If that's leading to breaking your gear to keep him inspired... I would be talking to him about realistic expectations.
 
I'd like to see in a reverb or ebay ad or anywhere
a larger 2oo2 /18/20" or more.. but not a China type with a lathe line crack

if you have a picture like to see it just for curiosity sake

can't recall ever seeing B8 crack along a lathe line you know the 2" to 7" body cracks around the cymbal midway
I'm sure there's one out there
 
Get some 2oo2s that'll shut him up (the leader lol
16. 18,19. 20 or 22 and 14" Sound Edges.
That'll silence him
 
lemme see a 2oo2 B8 with one of these:

index.php



remote fissures
 
If you saw the guitar rig you'd laugh. Tiny. But tech is incredible now. He's normally under control.

All well and good, except that acoustically drums can't keep up with amps. If that's leading to breaking your gear to keep him inspired... I would be talking to him about realistic expectations.

It's a 14 year old band and I'm on my 3rd month as the FNG. The singer wants drum stage volume specifically. Guitar is not an issue but there was 1 gig that the tiny little Hughes & Ketner downed me out. That may have been the start of the crack but I fingernail my cymbals several times per gig, checking. It's 1/4" already.

One other heavily traveled, active local guy wants that same snare and kick stage volume to get amped. These are 2 well practiced, respected singers/leaders who just happen to feed off of the same thing. They aren't unknowns or wannabes. It's just their thing and I won this audition and want to stay.
I'm fine with the volume requirement. If it's a house gig or low ceiling they keep it down.

I just want a cymbal that won't break as easily, not change the band. If you're getting private gigs, people like you the way you are.
 
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I've changed bands to 1 that wants lots of volume at times and just cracked a 17" Sabian AAX Stage crash.

What series of cymbal still has a good voice and is less likely to die from a heavy hand? A local drummer once replied that his cymbal at a jam probably couldn't be broken by the person playing it.
Paiste rude, quite loud and durable. Not cheap..
 
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If you saw the guitar rig you'd laugh. Tiny. But tech is incredible now. He's normally under control.
I used to play my regular church gig (guitar) with a 4 watt tube amplifier. I like stage volume to hear myself and a monitor for the rest of the band. Never had to max out the little 4 watt Vox (it was mic'ed for the FOH) and we did have an un-caged acoustic drummer.

None of that means anything to your current situation, but your statement above made me think about it.

Carry on...
 
All well and good, except that acoustically drums can't keep up with amps. If that's leading to breaking your gear to keep him inspired... I would be talking to him about realistic expectations.
Second that, I will also suggest adding overhead mics, that way you don’t have to bash your kit and you will be able to control the volume much easier.
 
I don't think any one cymbal line will really answer your question. Personally, I have broken a higher percentage of the Paistes I've owned than any other, yet they will often be recommended. I think @alparrott is on the right track, though. Go (relatively) big and go thin. I've had good luck that way.

On another note - you can only get so much volume out of a cymbal, and that volume happens WAY before you get to the point where you are striking very hard at all. Try and master the art of *looking* like you are beating the crap out of the cymbals while not actually hitting them very hard. That visual energy comes across as LOUDER.
 
Put the cymbals in his monitors. No offense, his request seems stupid. Cymbal breakage should be looked at as a big problem, not only from the obvious cost standpoint, but also from the toll it might be taking on you physically. At one point, I was a heavy hitter, swinging 5Bs like golf clubs and keeping Sabian's bottom line healthy. But one day, I looked at my positioning of the cymbals, which was almost flat, and worked on how I struck them, and the breakage stopped.

There's a certain point of diminishing returns where volume is needed acoustically. There's no point in injuring(and bankrupting) yourself--mike the kit and/or cymbals.



Dan
 
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