Cymbal Purchase Rant - Clueless Retailers and Private Sellers

Rattlin' Bones

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
This applies to 90% of retail stores and most individual sellers of cymbals. If you're one of these -PLEASE READ. Take this as a public service announcement lol.

How can I be expected to buy a cymbal from a retailer when they don't include any weight? Same with individual sellers that sell a lot of cymbals as a cottage industry.

Well-recorded sound files are a bonus (applause to Memphis, Cymbal House, Hazelshould, etc.) but, as an example, even with no sound file if I want a classic sounding lite jazz ride cymbal if I see a listing for a 20"vintage Zildjian that weighs 1,859 grams at a good price I might take a chance on it (and thanks to other forum members reminding me of this strategy). But if they only list a make/model only (and often a stock photo if it's a new cymbal) who knows if I'll get a 1,500g wafer or a 3,000g pinging rock monster lol.

Repeat after me: Size&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weight
 
I guess we can expand the acronym to “if you know most of the ones on the market are duds, you know not to buy this one”
 
I think if you're buying common, mass-produced cymbals, you're just fine without actual weights. For example; a Zildjian 20" medium ride is gonna sound just like every other one on the planet. Where it gets tricky is odd ball cymbals. I've rolled the dice and bought a few sight unseen. Some are good. Some get re-listed.
 
Most people don't have a scale that will (accurately) weigh a cymbal in their home, so people selling personal equipment get a pass from me. I wish music stores were more consistent about weighing what they're selling, but I really think this is something cymbal manufacturers should do themselves.

Maybe not every cymbal, but certainly once you hit what a company considers their professional-level I don't think it is too much to ask to weigh and write a number under the bell. Based on what I've seen your average Sabian and Zildjian cymbal has a wider than I'd expect weight range, and while weight is far from the only factor determining what a cymbal is going to sound like, it is probably the most objective one.
 
weight is going to be pitch except in some rare rare (but they exist) circumstances
~
there's an era and weight of an Old K 20 that despite it's low weight - 9 times out of 10- it will have no lows - as in No lows whatsoever.
I knew this and still bought one. And doggone it I couldn't coax a low out of it- even with a soft mallet roll. It wasn't there..
~

Basically weight is pitch Hi- the heavier Lo- the lighter
When looking at old 60s no ink era A's knowing weight beforehand is imperative
if you want lower (pitch) cups and a quieter Ride that will sit and play under a band.. Or more weight if you want to shoot high above or ride along with a loud group.
~
I know the weight of every cymbal I own but one ; a 20" early 70s A no ink swish . I sorta know what it is just by lifting it but never got it weighed
I would take a cymbal to the post office have a chat and have the employee behind the window weigh it for me. They'd give me lbs. and ounces. I'd mark it down take it home and convert to grams and mark it under the bell.

It's one trip that lasts forever
 
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Winston_Wolf said:
Most people don't have a scale that will (accurately) weigh a cymbal in their home, so people selling personal equipment get a pass from me. I wish music stores were more consistent about weighing what they're selling, but I really think this is something cymbal manufacturers should do themselves.
Click to expand...

My local Post Office has been very helpful weighing some of my cymbals that I didn’t know their weight. I wouldn’t take more than one in at a time, but the postal clerks seemed more than glad to provide this service for me. You can’t get more accurate than a postal scale.
 
Winston_Wolf said:
Most people don't have a scale that will (accurately) weigh a cymbal in their home, so people selling personal equipment get a pass from me. I wish music stores were more consistent about weighing what they're selling, but I really think this is something cymbal manufacturers should do themselves.

Maybe not every cymbal, but certainly once you hit what a company considers their professional-level I don't think it is too much to ask to weigh and write a number under the bell. Based on what I've seen your average Sabian and Zildjian cymbal has a wider than I'd expect weight range, and while weight is far from the only factor determining what a cymbal is going to sound like, it is probably the most objective one.
Click to expand...

Post Office everyone has one. Self-service kiosk at post office. Convert to grams. Done.
 

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A J said:
I think if you're buying common, mass-produced cymbals, you're just fine without actual weights. For example; a Zildjian 20" medium ride is gonna sound just like every other one on the planet. Where it gets tricky is odd ball cymbals. I've rolled the dice and bought a few sight unseen. Some are good. Some get re-listed.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. A swing of several hundred grams can make a big difference. And the label "medium" changes - what is the definition of medium? Is medium stenciled on cymbal? Is medium an adjective used just by seller? What is criteria? If so, what is era? Medium ain't medium ain't medium.
 
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Medium in ye olde cymbal times was and maybe still is in some quarters today- a Range.
I think everyone knows and accepts that .

could be 1800g to 2600g in a 20" in old K ink and maybe in Avedis-speak too.

That in a way - was the beauty when selecting cymbals was done- in person at a store. There was variety.
But now with the buying perspective being over the net- one likes to know as much as possible beforehand
and then take the chance 😁
 
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Sometimes an old, used cymbal may come without a label (such as my A Zildjian and Formula 602 medium rides), so it may benefit from a weight figure so I know what it is intended to sound like. For cymbal brands with wide weight variations (e.g. Zildjian and Dream), it is also handy and IMHO should be printed on every new cymbal from the factory.
It would also be beneficial if manufacturers list a weight range on their website, instead of "thin", "medium", or "heavy", which varies a lot between lines and manufacturers. An A Zildjian "thin" crash is very thick compared with a K Constantinople or Paiste 2002, and doesn't open up at all. Zildjian"medium" hi-hats (from some eras) tend to be thicker than Paiste "heavy" ones, too. Confusing.
 
bongoman said:
My mantra is if they don’t make an effort, they don’t make a sale.
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This.
I need to see they're serious about selling as I am buying.
I for one love the "Ziljan symbol for sale" as I know they have no clue, nor did they do any research. To them it's just a metal disk that they can get some money out of.
 
Paul F. had all those figures -weight range for models- in his head but Zildjian used Lbs and oz instead of Gs

here- From 3 years ago- is that old K era New Stamp 1888g 20" (demo from owner) I bought (and later sold/part traded.

No lows (trust me) (despite low weight

 
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I don't know if I've ever listed a cymbal and included the weight, but I did include lots of pics and some sound.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
This applies to 90% of retail stores and most individual sellers of cymbals. If you're one of these -PLEASE READ. Take this as a public service announcement lol.

How can I be expected to buy a cymbal from a retailer when they don't include any weight? Same with individual sellers that sell a lot of cymbals as a cottage industry.

Well-recorded sound files are a bonus (applause to Memphis, Cymbal House, Hazelshould, etc.) but, as an example, even with no sound file if I want a classic sounding lite jazz ride cymbal if I see a listing for a 20"vintage Zildjian that weighs 1,859 grams at a good price I might take a chance on it (and thanks to other forum members reminding me of this strategy). But if they only list a make/model only (and often a stock photo if it's a new cymbal) who knows if I'll get a 1,500g wafer or a 3,000g pinging rock monster lol.

Repeat after me: Size&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weightSize&weight
Click to expand...
I understand size but why does weight matter to you? Aside from transporting them to and from the gig, they will remain on a stand or in their cymbal bag. Unless the reason you want to know the weight relates to cymbal thickness which does greatly affect how a cymbal sounds/plays.
for the most part I prefer thinner cymbals because to my ears they sound better, and they feel easier to play. I mentioned before that regardless of the type of gear used to record (even the most expensive state of the art gear) will only give you a slight idea due to all the variables involved. (The room used, the mic used, the recording gear used, then how the video is processed and such). Even if you were to be at the store in person, a cymbal vault will make the same cymbal sound very different from what it would sound like in your rehearsal space (no mics or recording gear involved), or from what it would sound like in different venue. So as others have commented here, if you don't have the opportunity to try them in person, and you don't end up liking them, then re-list them...
 
Vintage Old School said:
My local Post Office has been very helpful weighing some of my cymbals that I didn’t know their weight. I wouldn’t take more than one in at a time, but the postal clerks seemed more than glad to provide this service for me. You can’t get more accurate than a postal scale.
Click to expand...
You can get your own for cheap and save gas $$ :

 
I agree Rattlin' Bones! However, remember that weight is just a general reference point; it's not the be all end all. I have plenty of cymbals that are in the "right" weight range, but play heavier or lighter and sound different than expected. Sound files are the most important to me, followed by weight.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
This applies to 90% of retail stores and most individual sellers of cymbals.
Click to expand...
I think you are talking about a particular niche area of cymbals.
I don't think I've ever bought a cymbal based on weight (in 40+ years), except maybe for the designation 'thin' or 'light', but not a specific gram weight.
I've never weighed a cymbal I sold unless it was requested by an interested buyer. In the mainstream world of cymbals, they are all pretty uniform - a K dark crash is a K dark crash. An Istanbul Traditional is much the same as another, likewise most Paiste and Sabian.
If I am assembling a few cymbals in a product line I probably want a variety of different colours which means a few slightly different weights, but I just buy them and if they don't work, sell them on.
 
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