4 piece vs 5 piece kits

Rolltide said:
What is the practical answer , I know 4 piece promotes creativity etc ,, however does having another Tom option help your creativity and output ?
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i like the two up layout. i can mix and match fills and get more improv going with that. I have always played at Least a 5 pc. two up 1 down and have two 7 pc kits. I play a lot of classic rock so that set up is similar to many classic rock drummers. Its just what ive always been comfortable with. i would be lost without two rack toms
 
2-up-1-down definitely has different possibilities compared to 1-up-1-down or 1-up-2-down. The main difference is the position of the ride cymbal. I like all of these configurations for different reasons. My preferred main kit would have enough toms to be set up in any of these configurations.
 
basset52 said:
It depends on the type of music played - our band plays 50's 60's and 70's songs that don't require big fills etc. My 1 up 1 down snare and kick do just fine for those. Less gear for me to carry.
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Exactly. I'm not playing any arena kinda music and I don't need to put on a big show. Heck my jazz band keeps encouraging me to leave my bass drum at home lol.

From a practical standpoint one less drum to transport to/from gigs and set up makes the gigs easier.

Let's be honest - A lot of the overwhelming amount of drums and percussion in rock that started being used on stage especially in 70's was for show. It looked awesome on stage elevated on a platform with lots of spectacular lighting all those drums and cymbals and gongs and crap.Lots of sizzle to big performance. That doesn't translate well to the 90% of us drummers doing bar gigs and small venue gigs.

A lot of kits available are 5 piece, with 10" and 12" rack toms. I have two such kits because that's what was available in the finish I wanted. I toy with idea of using the 10" but never have. One reason is practicing with the 10 and 12, the 12 would be in a different place I'd be learning/ muscle memorizing differently than how I normally play. So unless I'm all in to going 5 piece I'm just keeping the 10" in a box. I might consider going with two floor toms for our blues band maybe an odd 12" and 14" or a standard 12" and 14" because I actually use my floor tom a lot with the blues band.
 
dcrigger said:
I see no practical way that using 4 piece rather than a 5 promotes creativity one way or the other.

The only thing I find it affects is - when I want to play something needing 3 tom pitches, with two toms, I can't and with three toms, I can. Of course, the same could be said of 3 vs. 4 toms - or 1 vs. 2 toms.

Bottomline - IMO it boils down to each player's vocabulary when it comes to the use of toms. Somewhere you hears the toms as high and low most of the time, will gravitate to a 4 piece. Hear things more often in terms of high, medium, and low, then I'd gravitate more to a 5 piece as home base.

Which is the case for me. Actually spent many, many years playing a somewhat compact set with 4 Blaemire toms - 8, 10, 12 and 14 before later settle back into normally playing a 5 piece. Though just recently I've found myself going back and forth between having four toms 10-16 set up - or experimenting with using a (Sput Searight inspired) "Snom" (an 8x14 snare with a hydraulic head tuned to function as a 14" tom, but also as a low FX snare - nestled in with the other toms 10, 12, Snom, 16.

I think the important thing to remember that the drums don't play themselves - just because something is there, doesn't mean we have to hit it. For me, what to set up is dictated by what size pallette I want to have available to me - limited by practical and convenience concerns. But no matter - what I decide to set up, doesn't dictate what I play. Just what I have available to me.
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"I see no practical way that using 4 piece rather than a 5 promotes creativity one way or the other."

I think you're looking at it wrong. It promotes creativity because - with fewer tools - you have to think more about those fewer tools and how to use them more creatively. If I play a very small venue where all I can bring is snare/hats/ride I have to be more creative in how I play and use those limited tools. Yeah with a bigger palette tons of drums you can be very creative, but when I take most of those tools away you have to be more creative with what you have left.
 
alparrott said:
I don't feel any discomfort with the second floor tom as it's a little to the right of the first; I don't need to twist much to reach it.
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I dropped my second floor because my back was reminding me why I need not twist like that.
Now I'm down to a 4-piece and it's ok. I do the side snare if I need something poppy for certain songs, but it's optional.
I've thought about doing the second floor to my left, but it's not a priority.
 
Cmdr. Ross said:
I dropped my second floor because my back was reminding me why I need not twist like that.
Now I'm down to a 4-piece and it's ok. I do the side snare if I need something poppy for certain songs, but it's optional.
I've thought about doing the second floor to my left, but it's not a priority.
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same issue for me. on my 3 up 2 dn kit i have to sit a couple inches farther back to be able to turn my upper body safely to hit the 2nd FT
 
I played a four-piece kit for a very long time. I recently went with a two up and one down five-piece kit, which is what I will stay with. Peace and goodwill.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
"I see no practical way that using 4 piece rather than a 5 promotes creativity one way or the other."

I think you're looking at it wrong. It promotes creativity because - with fewer tools - you have to think more about those fewer tools and how to use them more creatively. If I play a very small venue where all I can bring is snare/hats/ride I have to be more creative in how I play and use those limited tools. Yeah with a bigger palette tons of drums you can be very creative, but when I take most of those tools away you have to be more creative with what you have left.
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Well sure - if you define creativity solely as "coming up with ways to make do with limited resources, this is completely true. But I really doubt you or any one else thinks that creativity is limited to such a limited utility.

I've done performances with only a snare drum (the late Bulgarian pianist, Milcho Leviev asked me to do this a few times) and yes, it was very creative and challenging. But again, creativity isn't just about transversing limitations... effecting compromises. For me, it is far more about - coming up with the best solutions drumming-wise for the music put before me. To me, this means realizing that I'm expected to be versed in as much musical/drumming history that I can hold within me, coupled with as much facility as I can muster, so that I can use that knowledge and skill to create the best drumming performance to any given piece of music that I can come up with.

And I do that, most often, with a set of tools that allows me to cover the lion's share of the things I most often come up with. This approach surely came from starting out (and continuing for decades) as a freelancer. Years of playing all manners of gigs - big bands, cocktail parties, rock session, film scores, country demos, free jazz performances - nearly always many different types in the same week, often in the same day. Through these years and with that schedule, it was not at all practical to have this drum set, and this drum set for that. First for years, I didn't have the money for that. And second, where would I get the time?

No, there was a set of drums in the car - and it didn't 95% of the work I did for decades. Not a set that reconfigured for each setting or style - but one I could pull out of the car, set up, play, load back up - and onto the next gig.

With basically the idea being - I was ready to go without having to go back to the car or reconfiguring. Though, of course, the Dixieland gig on the harbor cruise boat - where you need to be able to literally walk on with your instrument - was either snare only or snare and hi hat. Of course, I could that. But just as importantly - in any other setting, where I had the whole kit set up and only snare and hi hat were required for a piece of music - I could just play snare and hi hat. Same with toms - if had 3 or 4 - and only needed to hear the sound of two.... then that's what I would play. Two toms.... heck they were even set up in the position they would be in a 4 piece - all of those same fills and pattern work exactly the same.

The only set-up compromise on my five piece compared to a four piece is the ride cymbal position. I abhor putting the ride over to the right. And much prefer, keep the right in the same 1-2 o'clock position - but raise it up a bit, move it back a bit and of course, angle it towards me (so that my wrist position stays basically the same having it low and flat. Actually I prefer this set-up so such - that I pretty much maintain it when setting up a 4 piece for myself. (As I've seen many other jazz players do).

So basically a set-up, where BD, SD, HH, Ride and LH crash stay the same - whether I'm using 2 toms or 6. Two cymbals or 10. Because I find I can most be creative, when I'm not confronting re-inventing the wheel regarding my home base.

So no. I wasn't looking at it wrong.... not for me. And as I wrote, different folks have different home bases - or even relate to the importance of a home base differently. There's no right or wrong here - only what works for each. And similarly, that means there are no axioms that define this sort of approach or that sort of set-up is more creative overall. Creative in dealing with compromise yes. But so much of the time, compromise isn't the order of the day - fulfilling the expectations of clients or the other musicians we are playing with is.

my 2 cents...
 
When I play a 5 piece kit, I always have two floor toms. This gives me the ability to throw in some subtle tom patterns. I ride on my floor toms at times, but I much prefer a 16" over a 14" when riding. However, I find the sonic area between a 12" and a 16" too large for some situations, so the 14" fits the bill. Of course, if I'm lugging my drums from venue to venue, it's probably going to only be with a 4 piece.
 
My two extremes and I can be creative on both.


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It is easier to make full sentences when you have more kit (vocabulary) I found though.

I do like having 2, 4, or 8 toms to round of fills without the need to use the snare, and also do prefer a double tom or more rack tom setup, as I mostly need floors to place a full stop after a sentence or even word.

But maybe the 1 up 2 down setup I olay now can change my mind the coming years.
 
yammyfan said:
I love a 5-piece kit but find a 4-piece physically easier to play.

I like having my ride over the kick drum, and not having to twist to reach rack toms. A simpler, more ergonomic setup lets me relax and deliver a better performance. I value time keeping above all and will happily sacrifice tom fills for steadiness. In my experience, adding drum fills and whatnot just increases the number of opportunities to go out of time, and that's something I try to avoid like the plague.
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I agree with you, re: positioning. I split the difference by using 2 rack toms on a cymbal stand / rack so I can move them to my left (my 1st tom is directly straight in front of me, above the snare) rather than mounted on the bass drum.

To the OP- use what you need- and want, within reason- for the music you play and what's expected of you by your bandmates, artists who have hired you for sessions, etc. Chad Sexton (311) and Carter Beaufort (Dave Matthews Band) certainly aren't any less creative than Jason Finn (Presidents of the USA) or Slim Jim Phantom (Stray Cats).
 
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I have my 4 piece kit, bought it because of the price, 4 is less expensive then 5. I suspect that 4 is popular today, not because it's cool like the old jazz drummers of the 50s but because it's easier to ship a 4 piece with a 18" bass drum in an effort to lower the prices.

Today I would buy a 5 piece kit and In spite of all this, I am far from being able to exploit 2 toms only in the first place, but I picture the stuff would do differently with 3 toms, it's something desirable.

What I like about my 4 pieces, I can fit my ride closer to me in the missing tom hole. :)
 
Auspicious said:
I have my 4 piece kit, bought it because of the price, 4 is less expensive then 5. I suspect that 4 is popular today, not because it's cool like the old jazz drummers of the 50s but because it's easier to ship a 4 piece with a 18" bass drum in an effort to lower the prices.

Today I would buy a 5 piece kit and In spite of all this, I am far from being able to exploit 2 toms only in the first place, but I picture the stuff would do differently with 3 toms, it's something desirable.

What I like about my 4 pieces, I can fit my ride closer to me in the missing tom hole. :)
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Everything about playing music is a compromise no matter what instrument you play. Versatility vs ease of use.
 
For about 95% of all my gigs I have been using a 4 piece kit . My main reasons being that I prefer my ride cymbal closer , it is more compact and dammit I am lazy and just did hit want to bring an extra drum .
That being said I have been using 5 and 6 piece configurations with my Ludwig Classic Maple kit and have been living the extra pitches available .

I recently picked up a Sonor Vintage series kit in 22/13/16/18 and will have it out in full at a gig with one of my bands next week .
 
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