Drummer at the Wrong Gig (That'd be Me?)

JoeVermont

JoeVermont

Well-known Member
Or..... it's not you, it's me. :rolleyes:

I've been playing with a new group of folks for the last few months. We've gigged a few times and received very positive feedback.... and we have decent bookings ahead in 2024.

Recently we've started recording our rehearsals. Well, as I listen to the recordings it dawned on me, we're always fighting each other on tempo. To me it seems like we are always speeding up (verified with a metronome) - it can get very hard to hold these guys back. I believe this is because (as I've been told) I can be a "Behind the beat" drummer and they may feel that style as slowing down. BTW, we're not playing 80's hair metal, it's a typical Legion / VFW / club mix of cover tunes.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to be less "Behind the beat." Or, maybe I just need to stop whining and be thankful I have a gig. Or, maybe I just need to have a difficult conversation with my fellow band members.
 
I had this conversation last week at a paid rehearsal for a group. This has been my diplomatic way to approach it.

Me: This tune is at 102bpm, but it feels like you want to push it. Do you want to try it a little quicker? Say 104-5?
Them: We hadn't noticed. Sure.

We tried it at 105, they loved it, it was cleaned up, and now everyone is happy.

You could be behind the beat but still in tempo for the most part, but if they want to do it faster, just ask.

If you now play something faster and they are still trying to run away with it, that's just poor time.
 
sounds like Joe- you've never met these band mates before? 😁Are you all around same age/ similar style/ likes & experience?
are there differing levels there? not all hearing the same
 
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If you want an exercise in not playing behind the beat, try copying the beat on the verses of Toni Basil's Mickey, the MTV cheerleader song from the 80s. The verses will tell on you if you try to play behind the beat.

That won't stop/fix the band from speeding up thing though.
 
man, every time I have brough this issue up, I get blackballed/ yelled at/ told I am "taking it way to seriously/ told thqt it is my job to keep the tempo going, but tqt I also have to follow the whole band etc...

one thing I used to do was put the met on in my phones only, and the just play and block them out. That would still casue strife thought b/c they would say that I was rushing/dragging, even though they were not listenign to me and actually following me. In these cases, I would then bring up the whole "you guys told me that it is my job to keep tempo going", and then they wopuld get pissy and say that I was "just trying to make them look bad"

needless to say, it has been a long time since I played with any of those guys
 
If your tendency is to play behind the beat, as mine is, that's your natural way of playing time, and theirs is to push it, that sounds like a problem, but it's not fatal. I would also recommend taking a click track to rehearsal and see what happens. Then, once you establish the correct tempos, I would practice playing the songs alone at home at the BPMs you have all agreed on.

This reminds me of the time I saw Duke Robillard live at a club in Orange County, NY years ago. He had a new drummer, and I could tell things were not going well onstage. On break, the drummer complained to me that the whole band played way behind the beat. He didn't. Robillard was clearly not happy, and was clamming all over the place and making faces every time. That drummer didn't last long.
 
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jda said:
sounds like Joe- you've never met these band mates before? 😁Are you all around same age/ similar style/ likes & experience?
are there differing levels there? not all hearing the same
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I think you hit on something... the other two guys (it's a 3-piece group) played in a rock band about 10 years ago. They kind of approach everything like it's a Motley Crue Song.... even our classic country numbers. 🤔
 
BobC said:
If your tendency is to play behind the beat, as mine is, that's your natural way of playing time, and theirs is to push it, that sounds like a problem, but it's not fatal. I would also recommend taking a click track to rehearsal and see what happens. Then, once you establish the correct tempos, I would practice playing the songs alone at home at the BPMs you have all agreed on.

This reminds me of the time I saw Duke Robillard live at a club in Orange County, NY years ago. He had a new drummer, and I could tell things were not going well onstage. On break, the drummer complained to me that the whole band played way behind the beat. He didn't. Robillard was clearly not happy, and was clamming all over the place and making faces every time. That drummer didn't last long.
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I just don't get how people could be playing in a band, and fighting what they are hearing. If the group slows, slow with them. Analyze and fix in rehearsal, not on stage. I have also seen many gigs where people are butting heads on tempo control, thinking that they can fix it.

my job as a hired gun especially, but in any band situation, is to flex with the group. It is to drive the group, but also, not to fight it. If I am playing with group X, and they tend to play slow, I listen and follow, while trying to maintain the stylistic integrity. If they are slowing like 10-15bpm, then I will try to drive/push it, but if it is like 4-5bpm, I let it go.

What I don't do is try to be the tempo Nazi during a show, causing more issues. The country group I play with now has a tendency to end a song - esp uptempo ones - about 10 beats quicker than we start. It is consistent in every song, and no one in the crowd complains, so I let it go. Our bass player notices it as well, but the leader thinks he is solid, so we just follow. It is not a point worth arguing in that moment.

Our leader is also the one who counts things off, and in a span of 3 or 4 gigs, we can take a song many different tempos, according to his feelign that night. Again, it is not my job to adjust to what is "right" mid song if it is drastic. Often times after a gig, he will say "man, I think I took Wagon Wheel too fast tonight", but we never really stress about it beyond that. Now that we are familiar with each other, he also sometimes ask me for tempo reminders before starting songs.
 
At the top level, tempo is sometimes (not always) non negotiable. At small gig level, the main thing is the vibe. Everyone needs to be listening to everyone else and trying to help them sound good. At the non pro level, if musicians listen hard and aim to groove, they won't go far wrong, even if the tempo shifts around somewhat. People will still dance and clap at the end.
 
Is it only you listening back to rehearsals, or everybody? Are they hearing the tempo increases? If so, does it matter to them?
If they aren't hearing tempo increases, maybe show it to them.
Its true a dancing audience will not notice this stuff, but it ruins the whole feel of a good song if rushing fast through it. As a player that never feels good.
I'd have a chat with the band. Maybe they don't care.
 
I recommend having the conversation, and it doesn't have to be difficult. Similar to other commenters, our lead singer/rhythm guitarists starts most songs and the same song's tempo varies by ~10 bpm across gigs. I just go with it. We have noted when songs are toooo slow/fast, and recently (into our second year now) I introduced the idea of playing to a click as in "I just learned we can do this through our mixer and in-ears, if we want to". They are politely disinterested but fine with me experimenting with it on songs I start. The main thing, imo, is being open and gentle about it.
 
My first instinct is to put the click in everyone’s ear and see who whines like a baby first. But that only works if everyone’s ego is in check, and/or if everyone is good-enough friends.

I would encourage everyone else to listen to the same recording of rehearsal that you have listened to. That might actually get some good dialogue going
 
I think it could become a good thing. I totally agree with the suggestion to have an idea of the limit where you want to stop flexing the tempo and start driving it back. While it can be frustrating to play in a situation like that, the results can be intense and energetic.
 
JoeVermont said:
Or..... it's not you, it's me. :rolleyes:

I've been playing with a new group of folks for the last few months. We've gigged a few times and received very positive feedback.... and we have decent bookings ahead in 2024.

Recently we've started recording our rehearsals. Well, as I listen to the recordings it dawned on me, we're always fighting each other on tempo. To me it seems like we are always speeding up (verified with a metronome) - it can get very hard to hold these guys back. I believe this is because (as I've been told) I can be a "Behind the beat" drummer and they may feel that style as slowing down. BTW, we're not playing 80's hair metal, it's a typical Legion / VFW / club mix of cover tunes.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to be less "Behind the beat." Or, maybe I just need to stop whining and be thankful I have a gig. Or, maybe I just need to have a difficult conversation with my fellow band members.
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Your band isn't going to like my answer.

Use a metronome in your IEM's and make the band follow your tempo. They HAVE to stay with you.




(*The next line is for "future you" after you've tried this at the next band practice.)

Told you they would hate it.
 
PorkPieGuy said:
Your band isn't going to like my answer.

Use a metronome in your IEM's and make the band follow your tempo. They HAVE to stay with you.




(*The next line is for "future you" after you've tried this at the next band practice.)

Told you they would hate it.
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That can lose you a gig if you aren’t careful lol
 
I’m the same, I sound fairly back on the beat. Tbh I don’t think we can do much, it’s a combination of our technique, where we hear the beat and maybe being a little slow to react (?). I noticed that by practicing with digital music (whether it be programmed backing tracks or music with drum machines) it can coach you in sounding a bit more forward. Playing louder can bring us forward perhaps due to the sticks having more velocity, also if you play far back on the footboard you should learn to play with your foot further up, somewhere near the top.
 
Joe..im an on top of the beat guy. I WANT to be more of a behind the beat guy to get things more relaxed. It's a fine line but I'll take a behind the beat drummer any day if I had to choose. Maybe you can just delicately inform the other fine musicians to ease off the crack a wee bit 😃. When I listen to myself recorded from live events I'm always thinking dude..relax a bit. You can still be intense but let things breathe (speaking to myself).
 
Duck Tape said:
I’m the same, I sound fairly back on the beat. Tbh I don’t think we can do much, it’s a combination of our technique, where we hear the beat and maybe being a little slow to react (?). I noticed that by practicing with digital music (whether it be programmed backing tracks or music with drum machines) it can coach you in sounding a bit more forward. Playing louder can bring us forward perhaps due to the sticks having more velocity, also if you play far back on the footboard you should learn to play with your foot further up, somewhere near the top.
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Interesting you mention the footboard ..... I am a heel-down player. On the (old) Modern Drummer podcast, Mike and Mike did a segment on being behind the beat - they concluded that heel down players are usually behind the beat. In my case, agree 100%.
 
One of my bands (a cover band) are often disagreeing about tempos, i get the original bpms and programme them into my metronome, play it at the speed the song requires, and like your members, theyre either speeding up, or slowing down, and often wonder why theyre going out of time. (Theyre new to the whole gigging band game, so im being patient with them and guiding them along).

I try to be on the beat with most gigs i play, the only time i get told to be ahead or behind is at jazz gigs, which is fair enough as the bandleader directs us what tunes and tempos we play.
 
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