What is jazz drumming?

I dunno but I bet being Kenny G's drummer is a sweet paying gig.
 
Seafroggys said:
Watch the Adam Neely video I posted. He specifically references your point.

A definition of jazz made by jazz musicians and scholars, according to his video, uses three elements: Swing, Blues, and Improvisation. Of course, there's tons of music that we'd never call jazz that swings, has blues inflections, and improvisation. (and of course, there's jazz that doesn't have those three elements, which Neely also talks about)

If we're really going to loosely define jazz as some widely encompassing thing, then everything is jazz and genre doesn't matter, so this whole discussion is pointless.
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Put yourself in London 1968.

"Swing, Blues, and Improvisation"

That's exactly what early Sabbath was.


Check out Bill Ward in the early 70s........recognize that bass drum art?
Thats Bill Wards tip of the hat to Gene Krupa and big band Jazz................
 

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DB7 said:
Put yourself in London 1968.

"Swing, Blues, and Improvisation"

That's exactly what early Sabbath was.


Check out Bill Ward in the early 70s........recognize that bass drum art?
Thats Bill Wards tip of the hat to Gene Krupa and big band Jazz................
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It's been fun but let's be serious, all those guys were listening to a lot of blues, they're not jazz musicians.
 
Seafroggys said:
Alright, you guys convinced me. Black Sabbath, John Coltrane, Led Zeppelin, Miles Davis, and the Jazz Messengers are all the same genre.
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jda said:
whether it's "Barracuda" or "Ornithology"
it's two hands two feet butt on seat.
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Ok what is it you can't do... yet?.
See how that works? It's all Drum set/ the rest/ the co-mingling/ the choice the choosing one genre over the other/

is Up to us.
Like that girl sang
"We got the Power"

As a drummer, from one extreme to the other, we can cover a wide swath of that; extremes on the fringes may take more work than we have lifetime' but a wide swath in either North South East and West directions can be done

So what is jazz? it's one aspect- a large one- but doable.
 
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Jazz is sum made up stuff dat real mewsitions would never play. Dey can't read moosic, dey take drugs, den make passes at chur girlfriend--or even da wife!
 
Some random MODERN Jazz BIG BAND:

1) WDR Germany with guests...

2) North Texas University, Dallas, USA
 
Bo Eder said:
...venues got smaller with no dance floor and the music became less groovy to keep people from dancing. So jazz became a “muscle chops” fest because you had to wow the audience with phenomenal playing-most likely creating the jazz drumming you’re describing.
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And that's why, to quote Jeff Healy "My record collection pretty much bops it on the head about WWII" (at least as far as Jazz is concerned).
Alex Sanguinetti said:
Then maybe JAZZ its what all the drummers would like to be able to play but they dont have the honesty to admit...
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There's some truth to that, but some people just have just have different ideas about music or different taste. We don't have a burning desire to play music we wouldn't want to listen to, no matter how technically impressive it is. If I could make a wish, I'd much rather be able to play like a good orchestral drummer than a Jazz wizard.
Auspicious said:
Depending of the type of jazz it's often an intellectual experience, not easily accessible to everyone.
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I compare it to reading Martin Heidegger. Heidegger is a difficult slog and at the end - it's a big nothing-burger. There's not much there. But philosophy geeks go "Ooh! Ooh and ah!" over Heidegger, assuming that because his writing is so inaccessible it must be brilliant. Jazz can be like that sometimes.
Hollywood Jim said:
Usually when I listen to jazz solos, I find that there are no right notes.
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And, of course, there's two ways to take that. ;)
moxman said:
I still love modern jazz, and all kinds of different spins on it. I think sometimes its just so outside that I wonder.. if I’m struggling to make sense out of it.. how are non-musicians ever going to get this.
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There's the rub. I watched a guy lecturing about symphonic music and he said "good music" should be challenging enough that a listener has to be engaged, but accessible enough that a listener can make some sense of it. Music that fits that definition is different for everyone, and keeps changing. Maybe I don't like Jazz because it's just over my head. It's possible.
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
at the root, I still feel like jazz is rooted in the feel of the spang-a-lang rhythm. The broken triplet feel that that is.
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As a Jazz ignoramus, that's the distinguishing mark I recognize first. But I've had people tell me that some pre-war Jazz tunes aren't Jazz. To them, it's all about virtuosic improvisation and they can't see how a radio friendly melody could be considered Jazz.

So... Jazz is in the ear of the behearer?
 
sweet opening display here may help some one..


I call (Jack) Circular motion as in like a Horn breathes Circular motion.
one long drone Roll.. Galactical circling passing of the planets around the Sun
it revolves.
drones in a good way like an Indian sitar
infinity
there's a quarter note beat there- which is the Sun- his hands and sometimes feet- are the planets circling.. the Sun

you got that?: ) (lol
 
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TMe said:
And that's why, to quote Jeff Healy "My record collection pretty much bops it on the head about WWII" (at least as far as Jazz is concerned).

There's some truth to that, but some people just have just have different ideas about music or different taste. We don't have a burning desire to play music we wouldn't want to listen to, no matter how technically impressive it is. If I could make a wish, I'd much rather be able to play like a good orchestral drummer than a Jazz wizard.

I compare it to reading Martin Heidegger. Heidegger is a difficult slog and at the end - it's a big nothing-burger. There's not much there. But philosophy geeks go....
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Same with Atlas Shrugged. The book just repeats a narrative over and over again. I got the message 145 pages ago, AT LEAST.
 
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lefty2 said:
I guess I'm ignorant as to what swing is. Which part is swing? Early in the song he was using the toms kind of melodic.
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Kinda a cool drum part. I don't think I have heard that in more than 40 years. I will confess I don't hear/feel swing in that either. I am, however, still in the McGuffey 1st Eclectic Reader when it comes to picking swing influences out in rock pieces.
 
yes, to both replies

Seafroggys said:
Alright, you guys convinced me. Black Sabbath, John Coltrane, Led Zeppelin, Miles Davis, and the Jazz Messengers are all the same genre.
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not the same genre , but also not too far apart.

from a sociological/cultura/political stand point, they are the same genre. A rebellion against the "old ways" and evolution of new ones

from a musical stand point, there are differences, and there are influences. The influences create the similarity, but there are musical elements that make the differences


Seafroggys said:
So... Jazz is in the ear of the behearer?
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yep...to me personally, jazz is a large "box" that i put other smaller boxes in. These smaller boxes all have a main musical element that fit them in my jazz box, and not my "rock" box. Or classical box. Or drum corps box.

I am 100% sure that I have smaller boxes in my boxes box that other people don't
I am 100% sure that I define the definitions my boxes different than others
I am 100% sure that my system works for me, and that it wouldn't work for others
I am 100% sure that I would not force my system on others

in my world, I am 100% sure that Slayer is not jazz music, but am also 100% sure that Slayer has jazz attitude
 
toddbishop said:
That covers a lot of territory. Which record?
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Almost all of bebop? Most stuff after WWII that isn't very groove oriented and could be described as "noodely-oodely-oodely" by someone who's not a Jazz fan. I often listen to the Jazz radio station in Toronto when I'm driving, and visit The Rex, so I've been hearing a lot more Jazz in recent years but, for the most part, I only enjoy the stuff that seems more coherent to me. That could mean I just like stuff that's easier to understand because I'm not up to speed yet.
 
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TMe said:
Almost all of bebop? Most stuff after WWII that isn't very groove oriented and could be described as "noodely-oodely-oodely" by someone who's not a Jazz fan. I often listen to the Jazz radio station in Toronto when I'm driving, and visit The Rex, so I've been hearing a lot more Jazz in recent years but, for the most part, I only enjoy the stuff that seems more coherent to me. That could mean I just like stuff that's easier to understand because I'm not up to speed yet.
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i am a huge jazz fan, and it was actually the first genre of music I learned on drum set, but I also agree that some of the post WW2 stuff is hard to latch on to. For me, it is most of the stuff that happened after 1965

in fact, a lot of the pre WW2 stuff is also hard to listen to. I can only take so much of Jelly Roll Morton, and even 😮 Louis Armstrong and other simple stuff. I don't dislkie it, and DEFINITELY understand it's signifigance, but after about 3 songs, it is all the same thing to me

like with all genres, i have to take some of the fringe stuff in small doses. Even with metal and punk, my "home base" genres, I can only stomach some of the sub genres in small doses, and some not at all.

I can't stand rap metal/nu metal; emo/pop punk; jock-core; (this will probably risk me losing my metal "cred" card) but I don't really like the "classic" death metal stuff that much...
 
Like you OP, I like listening to and watching (some) jazz. I can play some simple jazz beats but am in no way a jazz player . Not even close . But I do incorporate ( I think) some elements of jazz in my playing as I think a lot of drummers do. There is ( to me anyway) some jazz elements in a lot or most music . I just never had the desire to play jazz so much . This may change as I move forward and can only help in the other genres I enjoy playing 👍🏼. Can’t hurt to learn as much as you can or want 🤷🏻‍♂️.

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To those who have no sense of humor and to that one special someone who apparently dislikes that I post a meme or two(😉, )this is a joke and for entertainment purposes only . Lighten up 😊.
 
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