My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

Red Menace said:
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This guy is pretty good, I tried to troll a thread by badmouthing jazz and vintage gear and no one bit. I suck at trolling.
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Not so sure that we have a good troll here.

Good trolling consists of making other people angry.

Getting angry while others point and laugh...not so much.
 
I play a four piece kit, big drums, one or two crash cymbals, socks, and a ride. For me, good drumming is about complimenting the music. The second I can tell a drummer is trying to just jam stuff in there just for the sake of doing it I lose interest just like most would if they heard a drummer play the same beat and same fills to every song. In my opinion, a good drummer is someone who can do the most with the least amount of equipment, while still fitting the music.

All that being said, I'd much rather listen to a Gospel drummer play something subtle and funky than a skinny white dude in a Lamb of God shirt play 32nd notes on a kick drum while he abuses a China. To so many people, skill as a drummer is a wide vocabulary, and sure it helps, but someone with good feel who cares about the music can make me enjoy what I'm hearing much more than somebody who wants to whip around these flashy and tehnical fills.

My take on drums is bare bones. I stay in the pocket, and when a space opens up I use it. And that feels good. That's what drums are about. I can play fast tempo stuff, and I can even play some pretty blazing fills, but it doesn't feel good. One time after a show, someone approached me and said "You're a really solid drummer." I took that compliment to heart, and it still means a lot to me.
 
EarthRocker said:
I play a four piece kit, big drums, one or two crash cymbals, socks, and a ride. For me, good drumming is about complimenting the music. The second I can tell a drummer is trying to just jam stuff in there just for the sake of doing it I lose interest just like most would if they heard a drummer play the same beat and same fills to every song. In my opinion, a good drummer is someone who can do the most with the least amount of equipment, while still fitting the music.

All that being said, I'd much rather listen to a Gospel drummer play something subtle and funky than a skinny white dude in a Lamb of God shirt play 32nd notes on a kick drum while he abuses a China. To so many people, skill as a drummer is a wide vocabulary, and sure it helps, but someone with good feel who cares about the music can make me enjoy what I'm hearing much more than somebody who wants to whip around these flashy and tehnical fills.

My take on drums is bare bones. I stay in the pocket, and when a space opens up I use it. And that feels good. That's what drums are about. I can play fast tempo stuff, and I can even play some pretty blazing fills, but it doesn't feel good. One time after a show, someone approached me and said "You're a really solid drummer." I took that compliment to heart, and it still means a lot to me.
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But your preference for gospel chops doesn't diminish what Adler does within the context of an entirely different musical application, does it? Just because playing fast "doesn't feel good" within the context of your own playing, doesn't mean it's not appropriate........it just means it's not to your taste. Don't confuse personal taste for appropriate musicality. That's exactly what the OP has done. Just 'cos it's not your thing, doesn't diminish its musical value.


As I said before, "good" drummers realise one size does not fit all.....and if they don't, they should. What's OTT for one situation may be right at home in another.......even if it's played on a 20 piece kit. :)
 
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I think it has more with feeling and knowing what to play. Billy Cobham is a jazz fusion
drummer with many toms and cymbals around him. I saw him playing simple 5 pc and 1 crash - and believe me its sounds like he has 4 toms and 3 crashes.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
Hey, if warmongering is good enough for Putin, then it's good enough for drummers.
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True... if you Putin enough effort in your drumming, you might end up as a good drummer on either a 4 piece or 20 piece drumkit...

... and it is colour, not color ... humour, not humor ... hour, not hor :)

Also, I think we should introduce open handed driving for those visiting countries which drives on the left hand side (and vice versa), it could make the difference between a good driver and an OK driver, no matter if you drive a huge car or a small car.

Oh... and you can play a million miles an hour with a 4 piece set just the same as you can make the drums metaphorically come alive with a 20 piece set, it has to do with the drummer, not the kit.
 
The size of your kit is pretty irrelevant and often has a lot to do with what is currently trendy within any given genre.

Drummers with chops can rip it on a practice pad and blow your mind. I remember a video of possibly Thomas Lang and marco Minnemann playing in an airport lounge using the floor and a pad.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
But your preference for gospel chops doesn't diminish what Adler does within the context of an entirely different musical application, does it? Just because playing fast "doesn't feel good" within the context of your own playing, doesn't mean it's not appropriate........it just means it's not to your taste. Don't confuse personal taste for appropriate musicality. That's exactly what the OP has done. Just 'cos it's not your thing, doesn't diminish its musical value.


As I said before, "good" drummers realise one size does not fit all.....and if they don't, they should. What's OTT for one situation may be right at home in another.......even if it's played on a 20 piece kit. :)
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Oh I wasn't trying to defile Adler, or even people who admire his playing. It just isn't my cup of tea, and I really take no interest in it. People tried to convince me to play double pedal, and I tried it several times over the course of about three years - never could make it work, plus I was discouraged by having to take my foot off the socks.

The point I was making is quite simple: good drumming is about fitting the music without under or overplaying. I read a post here a while back where someone said that whe they saw "seeking pocket drummer" they thought "stripped of all style." A good pocket drummer is never boring.
 
keep it simple said:
Steve, if you weren't already very high in my estimation, you certainly would be after admitting this ;) Was it the IRS version? Wire wheels?

I shouldn't rise to this, but I will, as ignoring you is a bigger deal. It's you who just reacted to a counter view. Ok, so your POV wasn't taken so seriously, or picked up with relish, but perhaps that has more to do with the initial presentation than your intention.

Political snipes aren't welcome here, & especially by me, when directed at someone I respect & regard as a friend. Stick around though, because something tells me you have much to offer.

Eloquently put :)
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Yes Andy..wire wheels ,and it was baby blue.That car was sooooo much fun to drive,but difficult to get parts for.I could make a U turn in the same space as a large closet.:)

Steve B
 
I played with flash once...I couldn't keep up.
 
EarthRocker said:
I play a four piece kit, big drums, one or two crash cymbals, socks, and a ride.
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EarthRocker said:
People tried to convince me to play double pedal, and I tried it several times over the course of about three years - never could make it work, plus I was discouraged by having to take my foot off the socks.
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Excuse me, dear fellow, but what is it that you mean by socks?
 
PQleyR said:
Excuse me, dear fellow, but what is it that you mean by socks?
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Very old term for what we now call the hi-hat.

In the early days of drumming, hi-hats were not high, they only came up to about the level of one's socks, as they were only intended to played with the foot. So they were commonly called sock cymbals.

And even after the longer rod was added to make them "high" hats, the term had stuck around. When I was a kid in the 1980's, many of the old time jazz guys still called the hi-hats sock cymbals.
 
DrumEatDrum said:
Very old term for what we now call the hi-hat.

In the early days of drumming, hi-hats were not high, they only came up to about the level of one's socks, as they were only intended to played with the foot. So they were commonly called sock cymbals.

And even after the longer rod was added to make them "high" hats, the term had stuck around. When I was a kid in the 1980's, many of the old time jazz guys still called the hi-hats sock cymbals.
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Oh I see. That's interesting!
 
the original post is not answerable...there is no answer; everyone likes something different and you are certainly welcome to dislike flashy players; for the most part so do I, however, there is usually more to them than what meets the eye

For example, as silly as find the carnival of sins tommy lee drum solo extravaganza, that is but one small facet of what he puts forth. In his case, he is a pro level, powerful drummer but also likes to entertain and has an outgoing persona.

I think lots of the big kit flashy guys could also coax that which you seek out of a small kit if they were so inclined.
 
Funny thing is, while I love his playing I tend to think of Gergo Borlai as a "chops" guy in contrast to someone like a Steve Jordan or Jim Keltner. Interesting that the OP picked him as an example of understatement.
 
How can I take that list seriously? I mean, Ringo is not even on it, or Lars Ulrich for that matter (or Travis Barker).

Sheesh! nice try.
 
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