Your legacy

Miles was right, The moment can never be created with the exact same feeling again.
You may remember it, But you can't recreate it.
Listening to a recording or playing a video is just not the same as experiencing the moment.
 
Agree with Stan - the moment cannot be captured, all we get is a facsimile. And what is captured is subjective.

So that link I posted of my old band means different things to different people. For me, hearing it brings me back to the little studio and reminds me of some moments in the studio back in 1981, and that can extrapolate to memories of the band, the gigs, the people etc. To our guitarist's daughter, it's a reminder of how it was her favourite song when she was three - very different memories. To outsiders it's something totally different again, but almost certainly far less significant.

Since I have an awful memory, I like to record things to give me a sense of solidity, a reminder of the foundations that lead me to today but once I'm gone the interest in that stuff will be largely anthropological - if it's found at all. Not my problem :) If our infrastructure survives our rampant procreation and depletion of the planet's food and other resources for long enough.

So, sure, record your stuff, Larry. Get a website and post your music there, and leave the website access details with your will. If your family members are in the mood for a stroll down Larry's Memory Lane, then they'll look at it like an old scrap book. Leave it on YouTube too and link to the vids from your site. Bear in mind that most stuff on the net is archived by Google and other sites, which is why experts are always advising young people to be careful what private info they share on the web - most of it can be found again ... the good, the bad and the insignificant.
 
Yes Pol but if you didn't have the recording in the first place, then everybody wouldn't have all those different memories. Nothing wrong with everybody getting a different memory from it, that's the point. As far as subjective, to me it's hard proof of what really happened, no matter how it felt at the time. Intrepetation is still subjective, but it's the uncolored truth of what happened. I just get so much pleasure from listening to old recordings of my past that I don't understand why others wouldn't even consider it. Maybe they don't know what they're missing.

I can think of a whole lot of good reasons to record. The main reason I record is to analyze it later to find out what's good what needs to be thrown out idea wise. That's the only way I can really grow as a player, to listen to myself so I know what works, what doesn't. I compare how the tempos felt onstage with how they feel listening back. Then I adjust the next time. It's incredibly useful. If I never recorded myself, I would be playing substantially worse than I am now, like in a major way.

Then, at the end when I'm done learning from my mistakes, I have this great bottled moment of my life that I participated in.

Plus there's the times when I'm recording when an unexpected player comes and sits in and magic happens. I want to hear that later!

I won't belabor the point any further, I guess it's not as important to others as it is to me.
 
larryace said:
I just get so much pleasure from listening to old recordings of my past that I don't understand why others wouldn't even consider it. Maybe they don't know what they're missing.
I can think of a whole lot of good reasons to record. The main reason I record is to analyze it later to find out what's good what needs to be thrown out idea wise. That's the only way I can really grow as a player, to listen to myself so I know what works, what doesn't. I compare how the tempos felt onstage with how they feel listening back. Then I adjust the next time. It's incredibly useful. If I never recorded myself, I would be playing substantially worse than I am now, like in a major way.

Then, at the end when I'm done learning from my mistakes, I have this great bottled moment of my life that I participated in.

Plus there's the times when I'm recording when an unexpected player comes and sits in and magic happens. I want to hear that later!

I won't belabor the point any further, I guess it's not as important to others as it is to me.
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Your POV is very valid and important {to you} Larry.

Just remember other folks live for the next performance and the unexpected twist and turns in that one "in the air" so to speak and not so concerned about living in {their} past but on having the focus on always moving forward from their POV applied to live performance music making.

Next opportunity is yet another opportunity at a "kick at the can" musically speaking into the great unknown of risk and chance.

I rarely listen to all my old recordings because i'm always thinking about how I can approach playing music slightly differently with others at future opportunities...hopefully always for the better as a group listener/player in mind.
 
So Stan, is it fair to say that you have no curiosity about how the gig you just did sounded?
 
I'm like Stan, I will listen, Learn, and move on to hopefully better things. Greener Grasses!
 
larryace said:
So Stan, is it fair to say that you have no curiosity about how the gig you just did sounded?
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Sure I do i'm only human Larry....but i'm always thinking about the next one or opportunity to be honest.

That's one gone {for better or worse} into the air and the nature of how I approach playing music means that it won't be the exact same way ever again.

Sure you learn from listening to yourself and find things you'd like to change about a performance or your playing in particular. I'm just a big fan of the unexpected so I don't over think or over analize my own playing in the ACTUAL moment of making music when it's going down. That I trust on my ears and sense of organic flow/intuition at that precise moment in time with having hopefully a sensitive ear towards the input and contributions of others i'm playing off. That's the dangers of recording live group tracks for all involved in the high pressure studio setting since you start to over think and micro-manage every note and sometimes you forget how to just "play" and the music refuses to flow out naturally {so know that one from experience over the years}.
 
I definitely would regret it! My life goal is to leave behind my music through recordings and albums. I find it spectacular, that great art will survive long after the musicians have passed.....
 
Stan, I'm getting the feeling that your approach would be far more common in jazz circles. Many years ago I read a Jaco interview where he said he never listened to anything he played, not even the albums. It was done, over, move on.

On the other hand, in rock, pop, classical etc the act of tightly arranging the music is an act of preservation, hopefully the preservation of the best / imagined ideal parts for that piece of music rather than the jazz approach of new expression of how the players feel about a piece as it unfolds moment by moment.

The rock/classical approach intinsically leads its players to recording - to capture the (hopefully) ideal expression of a piece.

Ironic, given that the rock generation came into being as rebellion against the stifling values of their parents, who were raised on jazz. But jazz (of the bop line) became increasingly free spirited while rock, after a brief creative flourish, became more conservative.At least until Kenny G turned up lol
 
My legacy will that I was a great dad to my children.

And I will have left them several old fashion items called CD's that had various forms of music on them. I wonder if they'll even have CDs players.
 
I do believe - John Bonham - left an unusual and remarkable rock drumming/musical legacy behind him after his death. But some people might end in extremely idolatry without a cause, which is very shallow way of thinking.
 
Pollyanna said:
Stan, I'm getting the feeling that your approach would be far more common in jazz circles. Many years ago I read a Jaco interview where he said he never listened to anything he played, not even the albums. It was done, over, move on.

On the other hand, in rock, pop, classical etc the act of tightly arranging the music is an act of preservation, hopefully the preservation of the best / imagined ideal parts for that piece of music rather than the jazz approach of new expression of how the players feel about a piece as it unfolds moment by moment.

The rock/classical approach intinsically leads its players to recording - to capture the (hopefully) ideal expression of a piece.

Ironic, given that the rock generation came into being as rebellion against the stifling values of their parents, who were raised on jazz. But jazz (of the bop line) became increasingly free spirited while rock, after a brief creative flourish, became more conservative.At least until Kenny G turned up lol
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To a degree I believe that to be true. I think the intent is to deliver a good performance "in the moment" {no overdubs} outmost. If you're leaving it a open canvass by not overthinking out the process and if the tape is rolling in the studio when it happens great results can happen. I think for most of the great jazz studio recordings that is the case being a live concert that happened to take place in the recording studio. Icing on the cake so to speak if a great recording comes out of the focus on the music making process and how it develops on the spot.

I suspect even with the use of playing with indivdual tracks and overdubs with studio "magic" some of the best creative moments heard in the glory days of late 60's, 70's and early 80's pop we look back on were to some extent or another being the musicians allowing themselves the personal creative freedom of just "playing"...just playing the music that is to see what takes shape on the spot. No different I suspect than how we impov based jazz musicians approach the music to some degree.

Today's lean in pop is towards complete perfection even before the creative elements of music making with other people interacting with each other is even considered in the mix to my ears. Sometimes human imperfections is the best form of the expression of perfection when it comes to music...the human element and expression of intellectional/emotional based music of chance and risk..
 
My legacy is to educate my children and my grandchildren will be educated.
 
Steamer said:
To a degree I believe that to be true. I think the intent is to deliver a good performance "in the moment" {no overdubs} outmost. If you're leaving it a open canvass by not overthinking out the process and if the tape is rolling in the studio when it happens great results can happen. I think for most of the great jazz studio recordings that is the case being a live concert that happened to take place in the recording studio. Icing on the cake so to speak if a great recording comes out of the focus on the music making process and how it develops on the spot.

I suspect even with the use of playing with indivdual tracks and overdubs with studio "magic" some of the best creative moments heard in the glory days of late 60's, 70's and early 80's pop we look back on were to some extent or another being the musicians allowing themselves the personal creative freedom of just "playing"...just playing the music that is to see what takes shape on the spot. No different I suspect than how we impov based jazz musicians approach the music to some degree.

Today's lean in pop is towards complete perfection even before the creative elements of music making with other people interacting with each other is even considered in the mix to my ears. Sometimes human imperfections is the best form of the expression of perfection when it comes to music...the human element and expression of intellectional/emotional based music of chance and risk..
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Agree Stan. The total perfection ideal at the expense of natural music making rarely does it for me.

I did one recording with that approach with an old band, mixing my lines with that of a drum machine, everything separated and dubbed within an inch of its life etc etc. The process was sterile, long-winded and annoying ... and the energy wasn't there. But our manager thought that was the way to go in the 80s. It took so long we were forced to knock off the (intended) B-side in one take - 100% improvement.

For whatever my opinion's worth, I think it's a good idea for improv bands to record as much as possible because you never know if the magic will happen. Some of my old bands had long solo sections and I know we didn't catch the best ones.
 
Crazy8s said:
Excellent realization, Aydee!

This 'telepathy' radiates outward at the speed of light and will span the entire universe. Our thoughts leave a permanent 'engraving' on the Aethereal Akashic Record and no soul's experiences are ever forgotten. In this respect, and others, we are immortal and what we do here in this 4d plane is for our own happiness. Happiness is often emphasized by the presence of others, and this is how music can be both a solitary excursion into joy and it can also bring joy to others.

There is no reason to fear our eventual departure from this realm as all of our experiences are there for us to remember in the 'afterworld' from this life and all previous lives. Everyone gets to understand this in their own personal way, but the single connecting thread is that our thoughts are entirely mediated by photons (light), and light is infinite and everlasting.

Enjoy all moments of awareness for they are a gift that you asked for, but do not fear what many may say is the end for there is no end. Light lasts forever.
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That has provided me with a lot of food for thought, and a crazy new way of viewing the world.
Thank you!
 
Steamer said:
. Sometimes human imperfections is the best form of the expression of perfection when it comes to music...the human element and expression of intellectional/emotional based music of chance and risk..
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"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it."
— Salvador Dalí

Great post, Stan.
 
It's like being a tourist. Some like to travel to different countries and take all these "here's me and the famous statue" -photos they can then post on facebook. Other's see it as distraction and think the point is the joyrney in the first place.

I'm a bit of a purist and close minded but I truly think music happens only live and improvisationally. An audience is a plus, it adds to the energy. But you will never ever (with todays technology) be able to reproduce it. That said, I do record our band always when we play. But that's just for practice and improvement, not for consuming. If I listen to recorded music, I prefer live recordings. Most people think recordings shouldn't have mistakes the players made on them, it'd be unprofessional. I think if there isn't any mistakes musicians aren't pushing themselves to the limits and it'd be a turn off for me. =P

But I know most people don't share my thoughts and it's ok, I have learned to live with it.
 
larryace said:
. I would love to see an ancient YouTube of my great to the 10th power grandparents doing their thing.
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Larry, you're describing your perception of a hole in your soul (Hmmm, great song title), & I connect with that. You see, I was brought up in an orphanage until I was adopted by my parents. Yes, ok, it seems like I'm using the wrong terms here, but they are my parents, as I see it. Anyhow, I have no knowledge of my lineage. I could be a product of prostitution, rape, or just peer pressure to unload that embarrasing baby from an unmarried mother. The past generations are a comfort to the living. Even without direct contact, there's a sense of grounding that swells up from the past. I can fully understand the desire to enrich that legacy, mostly because I cope with an emptyness that cannot be resolved by the love of those who care for you in this life.

My playing legacy is my son. He's been playing drums for 3 years now, and is a damn fine player. He possesses all the skills that his peers don't. His solid time, his dynamic, his interpretation, etc. While others of his age are pulling the tricks out of the bag, he's getting it right on the money and getting the chicks to boogie on down. I went to watch his band a few days ago. His presence filled the stage, a true performer. I'd like to believe that some of that grounding came from me, & that gives me immense pride. He's my living CD!
 
I'm reminded of that video I once posted here of my grandfather playing with an incredible New Orleans based dixieland jazz band on the Captain and Tenille TV Show over 30 years ago. What surprised were those people who joined the forum to ask me where they could find more video on the trumpet player Murphy Campo because what I had posted was apparently the entire evidence of his incredible 45 year career. I ask granddad about this and he said that Murphy was the kind of guy who entirely lived in the present and any time he even saw a guy with a TV camera come into the club he would jump off stage and chase him down the street because he wanted a royalty. This included tourists, kids, anybody.

This was supposedly one of the best trumpet players doing that style of that decade and nothing to show for it.

I think in these times it's like this. If you don't mark down your music then what does civilization have to judge and evaluate THIS civilization when they're looking to know more about us 1000s of years from now? If all they find is Lady Gaga then we will in their history become a Lady Gaga culture, while those people in the future perhaps unfortunately overlook some of the better parts of who we were alongside the garbage. Give it to pop music. That genre and classical music completely get the importance of legacy.

IMO Legacy is a thumbs up. And yeah Miles Davis said a lot of stuff, and yeah he was very much about the forward progress of music without looking back. But what I took from his bio was that he saw each of his albums as a benchmark for a new development not only for his career but for 20th century music as a whole. He maybe never played modal music after 1960 but he sure talked about Kind of Blue later///same with his Gil Evans albums, his Prestige records, his Columbia fusion legacy, all of it. He might not have wallowed in his legacy while moving to something else, but he certainly took note of it.
 
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