Yamaha DTXM12 or Roland SPD-SX

jziegler319

Senior Member
I have an octapad but I really wanted a sampling pad originally, so I'm probably going to sell the octapad and get one of these. Which one is better? (Price isn't really that big of a factor)
Thanks
-Jon
 
I have an octapad but I really wanted a sampling pad originally, so I'm probably going to sell the octapad and get one of these. Which one is better? (Price isn't really that big of a factor)
Thanks
-Jon

Hi,

We had a big discussion about it over in this thread, which is admittedly really hard to find:
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95727&highlight=Multi

I personally went with the Multi-12 for price reasons and also bought a sweet package deal with stand, hi-hat pedal, kick tower, etc. I have been pretty happy with it, although it is rather dense to set up through the onboard controls. Yamaha has come out with a control app for the iPad, but oddly has no plans to release a version for Android tablets or for PCs.

I have had great success sampling into the Yamaha, everything from specific sounds for songs up to rather big loops. The sound quality is really impressive.
 
I got me a Multi-12 ages ago. Nicer pads (3 more built-in pads!). Proper hat control. Much cheaper than the SPD-SX. (and besides I already had an SP-404, so could MIDI that on, anyways!). Finally, there were loads of problems with the older SPD-S (dodgy capacitors / internal memory giving up - Google these), so was somewhat put-off.

I suppose it depends on what features you are looking to use as to which is "better" to you.

ps. There's a good comparison of multi-pad controllers here:
https://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digitaldrummer_november_2012_final
 
Just bought a Yamaha DTXM12 and here is my initial thoughts...

I have a full acoustic kit for gigs and a matching Roland kit for quiet practise but I was looking for a really portable kit for practising quietly, jamming or small gigs where a full acoustic kit/electric kit would not be practical or appropriate. The main two options available were the Yamaha DTXM12 or the Roland SPD30. I chose the Yamaha because I wanted the 12 staggered pads rather than the Roland's flat eight and I could get the DTXM12 with stand, case and two pedals for the same price as the SPD30 alone.

I set up the kit out of the box, screwed on the adapter and attached it to the stand, plugged the hi-hat controller (HH40) and bass drum pedal (KD100) into the back and turned it on and started hitting pads. First thing I did was test out every pad in all 50 preset kits. First thing I realised was that the vast majority of these kits are combinations of world percussion sounds, electronic drum sounds and sound effects. There was only really two drum kits that sounded anything like I could use as an instant drum kit replacement, these were the Oak Custom (009) and Hipgig kit (049). The Oak custom is a solid sounding kit you could use for rock or funk, the Hipgig would work for jazz or pop etc. The default layout of the pads is a little weird and is obviously that way as it is set up to work without any pedals. So the cymbals are on the top row of bars: Crash, Splash and Ride. The toms are on the top row of the main pads: High, Medium and Low. The bass, snare and hi-hat are on the bottom row of the main pads: Bass, Snare and Hi-Hat (Closed). On the bottom row of bars is a loud bass drum, a rim-shot and a hi-hat edge. The bass drum pedal worked by default into input 14/15 and the hi-hat pedal opened and closed the hi-hat edge on bar 12, but not the main hi-hat on pad 9. However the bass drum pedal was very quiet and although the hi-hat opened and closed when I hit bar 12, it only made a very feint sound when I closed it. The other main issue was the strength you needed to hit the pads with in order to trigger the sounds and the feel of the pads themselves. It seemed to be set up for a heavy hitter - possibly using the pad to extend the sounds of an acoustic kit etc.

Firstly the pads are not hard like on an Octapad or other rubber drum pad, they are quite soft and this means you don't get much stick bounce from them - softer strokes and quiet double stroke rolls simply didn't trigger any sounds and you had to hit the bars much harder than the main pads to trigger them. So obviously all I need to do is adjust the sensitivity of the pads and pedals so they trigger at my desired playing level - simples...

No it isn't...

This is perhaps the biggest negative about the DTXM12 - if it's default settings don't suit your playing style and/or musical tastes the menu system is incredibly complicated, unintuitive and the manual really doesn't help that much. This is further complicated by the fact that there are several different places where you can edit/change the volume/triggering sensitivity and some of these affect or override the other settings. I am not new to electronic drums, drum machines and sequencers, but even with years of experience it took me probably 3-4 hours to get the triggering/volume of one single kit to a playable state. This involved telling the DTXM12 what kind of pedals I was using and then tweaking the triggering sensitivity of each pad/pedal as well as the overall sensitivity and volume. In the end I found that setting the system sensitivity to 'hand' or 'finger' allowed me to play gently and still trigger the sounds reliably. However, I still found that I had to hit the bars harder than the main pads and this was causing big volume spikes in the cymbal sounds and the pedal were still too quiet. Eventually I decided to set a fixed velocity for the cymbals (lower) and pedals (higher) which gave me a fairly balanced sound overall. As I said though there are 5 or 6 different places to tweak the sensitivity and volume of the system, kit and individual pads - and although this means you can have a completely different set up for every kit if you want to it is far too complicated in my opinion. Then I decided I wanted to make the pad 9 hi-hat sound open and close in the same way the bar 12 hi-hat edge did. This took about another hour - the secret being that in order for this to work you have to assign the closed and open sound to two different layers on the same pad e.g. A&C or B&D - and set the hi-hat pedal function to match. This is further complicated by the fact that there are two different ways or stages to setting a sound - you can assign a sample to a pad and/or assign a midi note to a pad (and possibly a sample to a midi note - still haven't quite got my head around that).

So after 4 hours of pulling what little of my hair I have left out I finally had a playable kit - I then changed some of the sounds/samples on each pad - which is actually quite simple as it should be - I opted for a standard ride on pad 6 with the bell sound on bar 3, with two crashes on bar 1 and 2. High tom and mid tom on pads 4 and 5, snare on pad 7, floor tom on pad 8, hi-hat on pad 9 and then rim shot, cowbell and hi-hat edge on bars 10,11 and 12. Of course you have to remember to store your changes otherwise they will be lost when you change kits or turn the unit off...

Next step was to download and install the extra acoustic kits available from the Yamaha website - this was straight-forward enough and the instructions were clear. There are four kits, each with five variations. They are high quality samples which take up most of the available user memory. However, the variations are simply the original kit tuned up, down or a combination of both and to be honest they sound rubbish, although the original kit sounds and samples are usable but I will want to mix and match different elements. I couldn't face trying to adjust the triggering and volume levels on these kits, hopefully there will be a way to copy my settings to a new kit (fingers crossed).

I have only just scratched the surface of what the DTXM12 does though - you can edit individual samples, record and sequence patterns, play loops and tuned instruments like piano or bass etc - so it is incredibly powerful, just not easy to set up as a simple drumkit - if you have no experience of electronic drums, drum machines and sequencers - then stay away you will lose the will to live...

I have since discovered that there is an app for Ipads called the DTX Touch that provides a much easier graphical interface for editing the kits and I am planning to give this a go tonight - probably developed because of the issues high-lighted above. I will post back my finding here in a few days. I am not looking for a huge variety of sounds or kits, I would just like one solid kit that I can play regularly, and if there are one or two variations for different styles then that would be a bonus.
 
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Quick update! Downloaded the DTX Touch app onto my Ipad - had to buy a Lightning to USB Camera Cable to connect it to the DTXM12. You have to change the midi connection setting on the DTXM12 to use USB instead of midi then it will connect to the app. I was a little confused at first as the kit displayed on the Ipad wasn't the kit I had loaded on the DTX, and in fact the kit on the DTX had changed when I connected it. In order to show the kit you have selected on the Ipad you need to press the icon which shows a DTX with an arrow pointing down, the other icon loads the kit on the Ipad onto the DTX. You can then save the kit on the Ipad and/or store the kit on the DTX. This makes the app really useful for storing your favourite kits and loading them again etc. I am not sure whether the app also lets you store/re-store global settings from the DTX or not - you can definately access some of these on the app, but haven't explored these yet.

What the app makes very easy is seeing what samples are assigned to each pad and changing these samples and layers etc, of course you must press store on the DTX otherwise the changes will not be saved. There is also a handy mixer view where you can see the relative volumes of the different pads as well as effects and the trigger settings for each pad. I am not sure whether you can access all of the settings on the app. I couldn't find the option to stop one of the pads changing with the hi-hat, but it could be hidden in one of the many sub-menus, which are still very complicated but certainly easier to navigate on the Ipad. One thing to note is that if you change the kit on the Ipad it will then automatically load this kit onto the DTX.

The Ipad certainly it makes it much easier to change sounds and kits etc, although I will probably only use it to set up and configure/store my settings, I don't really want to carry an Ipad around and have it on a stand when I am playing or performing etc.

Having got the kit configured the way I wanted I then managed to get in a good hour of playing it along to some tracks played on my phone via the auxiliary in connector. The sounds blended well with the music (70's funk) and after a while I was playing confidently without having to think about which pad triggered which sound and the triggering levels and playing feel was comfortable. As the pads are softer than most you don't get much bounce so you have to really play those double stroke rolls (which is probably better for you than mesh heads which are too bouncy and make double stroke rolls too easy). I need to spend a bit of time getting the layout of the kit finalised - the main conundrum being where to place the hi-hat as on a set of pads like this it makes sense to have the hi-hat on the right for playing 1/8th notes, but on the left for playing 1/16th notes. In the past I have had two identical kits with the hi-hat and the snare flipped, but with the extra pads available on the DTX it might be possible to have a hi-hat available on both sides of the snare drum which would remove the need for two kits. The other option would be to leave it on the right and play 16th notes as paradiddles, which works fine but changes the feel/dynamics of the groove a little...

I have also now discovered how to copy kits - you just make a change to it then store to a new user number - so I would recommend spending a couple of hours getting the triggering/sensitivity and layout perfect for one drum kit (Oak Custom recommended) then copying this kit to new locations and merely changing the samples they trigger - all the other settings will stay the same...

In terms of the quality of the sounds in comparison to Roland sounds (triggered from a HPD20 with Supernatural Sounds) I would say that the drum sounds are equally good, but very different in texture (one is a sample the other is a generated sound) but the biggest difference is in the cymbals. Here the Yamaha samples are a lot better particularly the ride and ride bell, which sounds very convincing - the ride/bell sounds were always the weakest element of my Roland kits...
 
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I'm researching these to possibly add one to my kit. My purpose is not an e-drum kit; I'm wanting to run different samples to supplement my playing and possibly edit those samples (pitch bend it down, add reverb, etc.)


Can you download samples online and then put them on this pad?

Edit: I googled and answered my own question. The answer? Yes.

However, there's not a ton of room on the Yamaha vs. Roland SPD SX.
 
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Yep you can load your own samples but there is only 64MB of space - however - this is plenty of space for hundreds of short percussive samples, or maybe 50 or so longer samples - the extra kit download uses about 75% of the memory and that has about 4-50 samples some as long as 20 seconds. So depending on how many and how long the samples are it may well do the job. But if you are just looking to play samples then I think the SPD SX is exactly what you are looking for - but that has no hi-hat control input and there is no way around that if you wanted to use it as a kit later. The SPD30 does though.
 
I'm pissed off at Yamaha for not making a pc editing program for my dtx-m12.

Too many i-kids working over there.
 
I'm pissed off at Yamaha for not making a pc editing program for my dtx-m12.

Too many i-kids working over there.
Yep it is a shame an android version would help - but to be honest they just need to make the onboard menu easy to use. I suspect they may be going to release a new version soon as it is 10 years old and they have just started dropping the price significantly. Once set up though it works really well as a portable kit with a stand and two silent pedals :)
 
Ok final thoughts on the DTXM12! It has taken me 2 weeks of fiddling and tweaking to get the DTXM12 into shape. I have now managed to get the triggering/sensitivity sorted and assigned suitable samples to the pads and external pads. The results are very good, however it took a massive amount of work to get everything working properly and I doubt someone without a lot of experience with electronic drums and sequencers etc would have the knowledge or patience to get to this stage. Here are my tips:

The first problem I faced was the default sensitivity/triggering was far too low and thus I had to hit the pads very hard to trigger them. This wouldn't be an issue if you were playing alongside an acoustic drum kit, but I wanted a quiet set I could play for practice/jamming. I found the easiest way to achieve this was to set the triggering to 'fingers' and play with sticks with very small tips (Vic Firth American Jazz 6AJ) this allowed me to play very gently and still trigger properly with double stroke rolls etc. I also had to set the top and bottom bar triggers to fixed velocities as they are not as sensitive as the main pads. Setting the pads types brought all of the external pads into line except for the silent HH pedal, which also had to be set at a fixed velocity.

Second issue was selecting the best samples for the kits. The in-built sounds are very limited, I only really found one set of usable cymbals, and two usable drum kits - the Oak Custom and the HipGig. The Oak custom works well as a solid all round kit and you can pitch shift the samples up or down by 2 semitones and it still sounds realistic. However, the add on samples from the Yamaha website are vastly superior and to be honest I would recommend just ignoring the built in sounds and focusing on those. Of the four acoustic kits available I found the Oak X Custom the best all-rounder, and I might use the Vintage kit (but with the Rock snare drum) for classic rock. The Jazz kit and rock kit were ok, and maybe useful if you want to play jazz or metal etc. These samples are very high quality and long - however, they are much louder and deeper than the on board samples so using them at the same settings is likely to deafen you. I had to turn them all down to about 50% to match the volume of the in built sounds. The kits are solid but what really stands out are the cymbals - there isn't a big selection, and there are more rides than other types - each ride has a bow, bell and crash sound and sounds really realistic. There are only a couple of crashes and hi-hats, but again much better than what you get out of the box. You should be able to get one or two usable kits from these, but I would try different combinations as the default choices don't necessarily work as well as they could. The only thing I might tweak is the amount of bottom end in the bass drum samples - I may add some deep end tone as a second layer.

So I am now ready to take the kit out into the big wide world and see how other people respond to the sounds when they hear it through a PA or small Drum monitor in quieter settings...
 
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