Wilcoxon solos

8Mile

Platinum Member
Do you do multiple bounce (buzz) rolls on it? If so, how do they sound? I'm a jazz/orchestral/musical theater player, and those rolls are EXTREMELY important to me. I have yet to hear anybody do those rolls on the pad.
They really don't work too well on this pad. You can play them on the bouncy side, but the problem is they're too hard to hear. The bouncy side is very quiet, quieter than any of the other pads I've used. The dead side is actually quite a bit louder, but no way can you buzz on that surface.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
The one thing that I absolutely, positively do, though, is I make sure that I play them with a swing feel (a la "Sing Sing Sing"). That is the way Wilcoxon meant for them to be played. They weren't really designed to be played as "straight" rudimental solos. At least that's what a couple of my teachers said. They were around when the book was first published.
Interesting! I'm definitely not doing that. I always assumed the "Modern Rudimental Swing Solos" book was the one to play that way. It hadn't occurred to me to swing the solos in this one. Phil from Drummer's Weekly Groovecast gets pretty into the Wilcoxon stuff and I think when I've seen him play them, he plays the solos from the All-American Drummer straight, so that's how I've approached them.
 

planoranger

Junior Member
Thanks, 8Mile...
I guess I'm going to try and check ProLogix pads next. Unfortunately, it's going to have to wait until I feel safer going into a store.
Fortunately, I'm not in desperate need of a pad. My Vater serves me well. I get to do what I need to do.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
My go-to store is usually Lone Star Percussion. I just checked their web site. The book is not only out of stock, they have no info on when it will be available again. My guess is because of the "you now what lockdown" (I'm certainly not going to introduce that topic here). Hopefully, the printer/publisher of the book will be up and running soon. Have you tried Amazon?
I just browsed Amazon and the prices now are crazy. I paid $16.95 for my book a year ago and now I'm seeing prices like $70 (Swing Solos I saw at $150!). Hoping this is a temporary inflation because of everything that's going on.
 

planoranger

Junior Member
Interesting! I'm definitely not doing that. I always assumed the "Modern Rudimental Swing Solos" book was the one to play that way. It hadn't occurred to me to swing the solos in this one. Phil from Drummer's Weekly Groovecast gets pretty into the Wilcoxon stuff and I think when I've seen him play them, he plays the solos from the All-American Drummer straight, so that's how I've approached them.
Don't get me wrong...your playing is absolutely terrific!! No need to change anything if you don't feel the need. This is just the way I approach it because that's how I was introduced to it.

Charley himself writes about how he added a touch of swing in the forward to the book. I'm just taking it a little more (maybe too much?) in that direction. On many of the solos, they sound and feel terrific played with more swing.

Also...just to clarify about the "Sing, Sing, Sing" swing...if you listen to the way Gene Krupa plays, it's NOT the triplet feel in which we typically play swing. It's actually closer to the "in the crack" feel that Stanton Moore talks about. After all, Krupa started in Chicago, and learned from the drummers there, many of whom came up the Mississippi River from New Orleans.
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
I just browsed Amazon and the prices now are crazy. I paid $16.95 for my book a year ago and now I'm seeing prices like $70 (Swing Solos I saw at $150!). Hoping this is a temporary inflation because of everything that's going on.
$ 13.95



As for pads, I do have a Reflexx, but what I use mostly is these two.



Xymox for snare work and Moongel for conditioning.

I have pad stands for the MGs, I have 4 of them and if I want to use something else like e.g. a Reflexx or Super-Pad they rest firmly on top of those. My main pad search ended with the Xymox. Just slightly more demanding to play than my snare the way I tune it, medium to medium high Gretsch with die cats hoops, so works out great for me.
 

beatdat

Senior Member
Yep...obviously I missed that. I "warned" you that I scanned the book quickly. Having played though it for about 40 years, I'm so used to seeing single and double paradiddles I was scanning for triples because they are actually rare in the first part of the book.
So, what's your answer now to how many solos one has to learn before all rudiments are covered?

It almost seems that the book was written in a "stream of consciousness" manner. I have yet to find a logical, progressive order in it.
This is NOT a recommendation, it's just the way I did it: When I first started using the book, I did 10 solos at a time for a week; 1-10 the first week, 11-20 the next, and so on. That was the way that made most sense to me. Within each group, you find at least one solo that will "kick your butt".
I've been learning them in groups of 10, as well. I think I'm going to stop after No. 40 (assuming all rudiments are covered by then), and then go back to iron out the sticky spots.

I guess I'm going to try and check ProLogix pads next. Unfortunately, it's going to have to wait until I feel safer going into a store.
Fortunately, I'm not in desperate need of a pad. My Vater serves me well. I get to do what I need to do.
If you're looking for a new pad, particularly one that is good for buzz-rolls, you may want to try something else than the ProLogix pads. I have the blue one, and, while I love it (it's grated for improving your hands) and use it almost all the time at home, I can't say buzz-rolls are something it's meant for; like 8mile says about the Reflexx pad, you can play buzz-rolls on it, but it's really quiet - still, it is a great pad for general practice.

You may want to look into the Xymox pad like @Odd-Arne Oseberg suggested.


Definetly, and playing them in tempos and is ways you'll approach the kit it will just naturally show up in your playing.
I haven't started implementing, or trying, any of the solos on the kit yet. But, what I've been doing for the past dozen or so (and go back to do with previous solos) is, not only count out loud, but at the same time, run alternate 1/8th notes with my feet feathering the double bass pedals. I've always played heel up, so doing this heel down while playing through the solos is a nice bit of coordination practice on top of it.


What do you suggest trying first when beginning to incorporate the solos around the kit: just take a lick or two from here and there and play it around the kit, or something more involved like playing an entire solo on the kit with accents on the toms, taps on the snare, hi-hat keeping time, etc?
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
I haven't started implementing, or trying, any of the solos on the kit yet. But, what I've been doing for the past dozen or so (and go back to do with previous solos) is, not only count out loud, but at the same time, run alternate 1/8th notes with my feet feathering the double bass pedals. I've always played heel up, so doing this heel down while playing through the solos is a nice bit of coordination practice on top of it.


What do you suggest trying first when beginning to incorporate the solos around the kit: just take a lick or two from here and there and play it around the kit, or something more involved like playing an entire solo on the kit with accents on the toms, taps on the snare, hi-hat keeping time, etc?

You can obviously practice it all those ways and it will be benefical.

I haven't had access to my kit as much as I used to the last few years, so this project for me was a lot about the right pad.

I generally do these etudes on the pad and on the kit I try to just play and improvise.

The idea was really just to work on all tempos and make sure it's all very articulate. That way it works your technique from every angle.

The idea is just that whatever you do it actually influences your actual playing and facility on your instrument the way you want. Nothing has worked better for me than AAD. I do more things, but the very nature of it not being static and me just going through most of it when I sit down keeps things very open. I just make notes of the ones that are harder and work some extra on those.

It takes a while to get through, but the etudes are not in order of difficulty, so I just went through all the ones I found the easiest at first, worked those for a while and then focused only on the ones left for a while.

Most of what I do comes from AAD and Sticking Patterns by Chaffee. Those are my "Stick Control."
 

planoranger

Junior Member
Wonderful playing as always!!! Sounded nice and relaxed. Keep 'em coming.

My only complaint was the birds. They had zero sense of time.😁
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Wilcoxon solo no. 12. This time I played it on the Workk (dead) side of my Reflexx pad.

One of the big challenges with these 6/8 solos is not slurring the rolls. I had been doing that on some of these and I was careful not to on this one. This stuff takes me time.


Edited to put up a new link with the correction pointed out in the comment below.
 
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beatdat

Senior Member
Wilcoxon solo no. 12. This time I played it on the Workk (dead) side of my Reflexx pad.

One of the big challenges with these 6/8 solos is not slurring the rolls. I had been doing that on some of these and I was careful not to on this one. This stuff takes me time.

Great playing again.

Do you have Solos 1-7 posted somewhere? One source (you!) for the first bunch of solos would be great to have as a reference.
 
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planoranger

Junior Member
Very nice...I really like your consistency and control...really smooth.

One observation though...you are not playing the repeats correctly. The first ending (the measure within the bracket with the #1) goes back to the beginning. Play the second ending (the measure within the bracket with the #2) the second time through...bypassing the first ending. The repeat at the end of the solo goes back to the bar with the double paradiddle followed by the single drag -- not to the beginning of the solo.

Perhaps you are doing it on purpose? If so...I'll go stand in the corner and mind my own business.
 
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8Mile

Platinum Member
Very nice...I really like your consistency and control...really smooth.

One observation though...you are not playing the repeats correctly. The first ending (the measure within the bracket with the #1) goes back to the beginning. Play the second ending (the measure within the bracket with the #2) the second time through...bypassing the first ending. The repeat at the end of the solo goes back to the bar with the double paradiddle followed by the single drag -- not to the beginning of the solo.

Perhaps you are doing it on purpose? If so...I'll go stand in the corner and mind my own business.
Oh damn! Right you are. Definitely not on purpose. I’m terrible about messing up repeats. Most of these solos had second endings and then suddenly there were a few that had none at all. I just got lazy and didn’t pay attention to the repeat signs. Good catch and thanks!
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Okay, I put up a new link with the corrected version. Trying to document all this, so I wanted to have the right version up there. Thanks again for the catch!
 
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