Why are drum modules so bad?

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Philaiy9

Junior Member
Why are drum modules so bad compared to VSTs? I just started using my Efnote kit to trigger EZ drummer and it's night and day. While the Efnote kit had decent sounds, it was nowhere near the experience of playing a real kit (and efnote is one of the better sounding modules); EZ drummer gets you 90% of the way there. It just captures so many more of the nuances, from the dynamic changes to the decay of notes.

My question is why is this the case? I would've thought e drum companies would jump at the opportunity to make the best sounding module they could to earn your dollar. And I don't think there is anything preventing the e drum companies from using the higher quality samples the VSTs use.

Not trying to rant, looking for someone to correct me.
 
Bo Eder said:
Which modules are you talking about exactly? What makes them so bad?
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I've never played an electronic drum kit module that sounds as good as EZ drummer, and some of those kits cost thousands of dollars. It's the difference in the quality of the samples--the drum modules I played were lacking in dynamic range and almost always had some kind of machine gunning going on, whether subtle or obvious.

For specific modules, I'll start with Efnote. But feel free to correct me if you've had a different experience comparing modules to VSTs.
 
Philaiy9 said:
Why are drum modules so bad compared to VSTs? I just started using my Efnote kit to trigger EZ drummer and it's night and day. While the Efnote kit had decent sounds, it was nowhere near the experience of playing a real kit (and efnote is one of the better sounding modules); EZ drummer gets you 90% of the way there. It just captures so many more of the nuances, from the dynamic changes to the decay of notes.

My question is why is this the case? I would've thought e drum companies would jump at the opportunity to make the best sounding module they could to earn your dollar. And I don't think there is anything preventing the e drum companies from using the higher quality samples the VSTs use.

Not trying to rant, looking for someone to correct me.
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You forgot about the Pearl Mimic pro which triggers Steven Slate Drums a vst but built into the module.
 
They don't have good factory settings but some of them apparently have the potential to sound very realistic.
I could never get my TD-30 to sound anywhere near as good as anything I heard online, for example Tony Royster Jr's TD-30 VDrums, which was very frustrating.
I tried VSTs but between mapping triggers and lag, it made me want to kill me edrums with an ice pick.
 
Perhaps this is just a matter of perception, but I kinda subscribe to the fact that if what I’m playing doesn’t look like the real thing, then why is it so important for it to sound like the real thing? Ive gigged a Zendrum since 1998, triggering sounds in an ancient Roland R5, and used that up until last year when I found a second hand Roland TD10 VDrum module that sounds so much better than the R5, and the TD10 is probably hailed as the one of the worst TD modules ever. That said, nobody has ever told me “your sounds don’t sound real, man”. And if someone did, it would be a big “duh” moment: I’m not playing anything real.

I think if you want real, play real. If you’re disappointed with sound modules, I think you’re being nit picky because literally, the audience doesn’t care. In fact, if you’re playing electronic drums, I’d say the more fake the better 😉. The first time I saw Bruford come out with that old Simmons SDS7 - making magic with King Crimson - people were still more in awe of what they played instead of how they played it.
 
Bo Eder said:
Perhaps this is just a matter of perception, but I kinda subscribe to the fact that if what I’m playing doesn’t look like the real thing, then why is it so important for it to sound like the real thing? Ive gigged a Zendrum since 1998, triggering sounds in an ancient Roland R5, and used that up until last year when I found a second hand Roland TD10 VDrum module that sounds so much better than the R5, and the TD10 is probably hailed as the one of the worst TD modules ever. That said, nobody has ever told me “your sounds don’t sound real, man”. And if someone did, it would be a big “duh” moment: I’m not playing anything real.

I think if you want real, play real. If you’re disappointed with sound modules, I think you’re being nit picky because literally, the audience doesn’t care. In fact, if you’re playing electronic drums, I’d say the more fake the better 😉. The first time I saw Bruford come out with that old Simmons SDS7 - making magic with King Crimson - people were still more in awe of what they played instead of how they played it.
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As much as I'd love to play the real thing, I live in an apartment so it's a choice of e drums or a practice kit to practice on. It's just so much more fulfilling to practice with e drums that do a realistic job of mimicking the acoustic kit in my opinion. And first world problems, but it's frustrating that the tech is there on the computer but they can't seem to put it in the module for convenience's sake (with the exception of Pearl mimic).
 
I have had ongoing frustration with exactly this. I was prepared to pay top dollar for a kit with a module that had an ace selection of acoustic sounds. Had the Alesis Strike Pro SE, now the Yamaha DTX10 . Alesis seems to have the better sounds but I needed the TCS pads. Couldn’t combine the Alesis module with the DTX as plug and play. Looked at the Mimic Pro to combine with the DTX as not willing/ able to go VST route but even that can’t just be plug and play regarding the hi hat and choke functions…
DTX has even better sound quality and realism but only after really deep menu dives that are tiresome to me. There are loaded kits without rim shots, daft splash sounds etc; the two four is the nearest I’ve got to ideal as standard regards pads and cymbals. There is a download for the module but that only uses existing voices from the module.
For me the ideal is a module that you can load loads of already great refined kits via an SD slot.
Of course I’m a hobby drummer, but is plug and play with a good selection of acoustic great quality kits too much to ask when paying £3000+? This is after all why I moved away from acoustic drums in the first place (that and the sheer volume).
 
Internal memory, processor etc. if you want it to have the same "power" as your e.g. macbook or something that works well with a VST, you would need to pay up and the module price would prohibit selling the kit. E.g. the flagship Strike module has a 16GB internal storage for samples, even though it!s one of the few that has round robin samples and sounds good IMO, compare that to a random 100GB toontrack SDX...
Also a lot of people don't hear the differerence, so they can easily get away with shittier sounds.
 
I tried playing with vsts, it doesn’t matter which one you pick, yes they sound good but none are perfect, you still hear machine gunning in Superior EZ, Steven Slate. Another thing, if say you use a kit that sounds exactly like the album (for example the Deftones kit from SSD), if you cover that song on top of the original drums, your drums disappear (unless you play a little off, or a little differently, or if you play a drum less version. I don’t know if Yamaha has a similar thing, but Roland has vxpressions packs which are built from module sounds and added samples, they do make the module sound better (a lot better). Also no matter which one you use, there is a 100% difference between what you hear on your headphones vs what you will hear in the room. This is due to added room ambiance which makes it great to record or listen to in headphones, but not so great through a PA in most cases, because the ambience clashes with the real room ambience, you will have to remove most of that ambience to make it workable in a live situation. In any case I can work , and have with module sounds live and the people who approached me commenoted about how great the drums sounded, never once had anybody tell me they sounded fake. I have seen friends bands playing with electronic drums, and from the audience perspective, it sounded like a perfectly tuned and properly miced kit. I have not played live with vsts, and I would be hesitant, not because of the laptop failing, but because, I know for a fact that I would have to create 3 or 4 kits tailored to that specific venue which will then not be usable in other venues. I never had that problem with module sounds.
 
doggyd69b said:
I tried playing with vsts, it doesn’t matter which one you pick, yes they sound good but none are perfect, you still hear machine gunning in Superior EZ
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not sure how you do that... Just the center articulation of the default snare in SD3 Core has 80 hits in 24 velocity layers.

As for covering songs, it's better to do them with the drumless version, otherwise it's always a little bit of cheating while you hear the original.
 
Philaiy9 said:
Why are drum modules so bad compared to VSTs? I just started using my Efnote kit to trigger EZ drummer and it's night and day. While the Efnote kit had decent sounds, it was nowhere near the experience of playing a real kit (and efnote is one of the better sounding modules); EZ drummer gets you 90% of the way there. It just captures so many more of the nuances, from the dynamic changes to the decay of notes.

My question is why is this the case? I would've thought e drum companies would jump at the opportunity to make the best sounding module they could to earn your dollar. And I don't think there is anything preventing the e drum companies from using the higher quality samples the VSTs use.

Not trying to rant, looking for someone to correct me.
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  1. Electronic kits are "real". My synths are real. My Strat is real.
  2. Electronic kits are NOT acoustic kits. Completely different instrument. A Korg synth is not a Steinway grand. They share a similar input interface, but that's it. The former can do so much more - and you don't buy a synth for a few K and only use the piano preset and never touch the mod wheels etc. Don't limit yourself to only sounding like it's 1958. Or your playing techniques to the same period.
x
 
Philaiy9 said:
As much as I'd love to play the real thing, I live in an apartment so it's a choice of e drums or a practice kit to practice on. It's just so much more fulfilling to practice with e drums that do a realistic job of mimicking the acoustic kit in my opinion. And first world problems, but it's frustrating that the tech is there on the computer but they can't seem to put it in the module for convenience's sake (with the exception of Pearl mimic).
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Understood. In this case then, since it’s only for practice due to noise concerns, it really is just a first world problem 😂
 
electrodrummer said:
  1. Electronic kits are "real". My synths are real. My Strat is real.
  2. Electronic kits are NOT acoustic kits. Completely different instrument. A Korg synth is not a Steinway grand. They share a similar input interface, but that's it. The former can do so much more - and you don't buy a synth for a few K and only use the piano preset and never touch the mod wheels etc. Don't limit yourself to only sounding like it's 1958. Or your playing techniques to the same period.
x
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That's one use for electronic instruments but there's clearly also a huge market for making digital instruments that closely mimic their acoustic counterparts. Especially with drums due to the noise aspect.
 
Fact is, most people are using v-drums to replace acoustic drums and would like v-drums to sound more like acoustic drums.
Many people in the industry are aware of the 'compromise' involved in v-drum modules. It's a multi-faceted scenario.
Roland do very well. they get flack on drum forums from a few people who hate the sounds, but they sell A LOT of v-drums and I think the majority of buyers are happy with the sounds. The 3rd party expansions sell, but nothing like the number of v-drums that are being bought...telling you that most users are ok with the onboard sounds.
Toontrack sample packs are extremely expensive and time consuming to produce. I think it's economical because it's not really drummers buying them, it is mostly bedroom producers, who can't afford a drummer and can't play drums themselves. And also a lot of professionals, including music producers and film score composers. So the market for VSTs is much, much bigger than the market for v-drums.
The other issue about samples is that they require a lot more internal memory and some more complex computing to work, which I think the e-drum makers worry won't be as reliable as on board module sounds.
The Pearl Mimic, which I love the sound of, hasn't blown the other v-drum brands out of the water. Maybe it's too expensive? They also haven't progressed much from the original sound set.
 
I thought the Pearl Mimic was going to be a real game changer when it first came out because it was the first dedicated module (as far as I know) that contained VST-quality samples. I don't think Pearl has done a very good job marketing the Mimic over the years, and they certainly haven't provided updates to the extent that most of us expected when it was first released. However, this is probably the module I'd turn to if I were to get back into the electronic drum game and build a kit piece by piece.
 
Chris Whitten said:
The Pearl Mimic, which I love the sound of, hasn't blown the other v-drum brands out of the water. Maybe it's too expensive? They also haven't progressed much from the original sound set.
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100% this^

Pre-covid I remember them going for around the $3000 mark (Australian dollar) now you're looking at 4-4.5K even 2nd hand sometimes so too rich for my blood!
 
toddmc said:
100% this^

Pre-covid I remember them going for around the $3000 mark (Australian dollar) now you're looking at 4-4.5K even 2nd hand sometimes so too rich for my blood!
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Jeez. It's cheaper to buy a nice mid level kit and a dedicated laptop with Steven Slate
 
charliedrummer said:
I thought the Pearl Mimic was going to be a real game changer when it first came out because it was the first dedicated module (as far as I know) that contained VST-quality samples. I don't think Pearl has done a very good job marketing the Mimic over the years, and they certainly haven't provided updates to the extent that most of us expected when it was first released. However, this is probably the module I'd turn to if I were to get back into the electronic drum game and build a kit piece by piece.
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If money is no object I'd say go for it. The difference between even the flagship Roland module and the Mimic is night and day to my ears when you hear a side-by-side comparison....

 
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