Vintage drum sound ?

R

Rolltide

Active Member
Is it the thin shells and single ply heads or can my 12 14 20 maple kit be tuned to a more vintage tone ? My drums like the lower tuning ,, I want a more vintage sound so do I need a vintage kit ?
 
Rolltide said:
my 12 14 20 maple kit
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what is this set; is it 6/7 plies of maple? rings? mixed woods?
Rolltide said:
My drums like the lower tuning
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what on earth do they smile? 😁

(to sound or vibe vintage) they have to have some history Some association (aural/recorded) (listenable) with the past/ performers..
Take Tama. You can go as far back as Lenny White and B Cobham in the 70s

1958 Ludwigs and you're back as far as "Don Lamond" territory.

What are your drums? include your favorite snare
may as well include dimensions in case there's an 18x20 in there : )
 
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answered above/ close as I can imagine/ sort of early fusion
If you know the original you will note the 1973 changes here


electric piano; a little rock; I think that's where you're at with...the Bartons
Get the full album however you retrieve music study and apply it
73 fusion

Or take a Road Trip if want full 1966
 
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Rolltide said:
Barton Drums 6 ply N American Naple 45 degree edges
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Not all "vintage" drums were thin shelled. Ludwig, Rogers, & Slingerland were, with more rounded bearing edges & reinforcement rings. Gretsch were straight shelled, but did have fairly rounded bearing edges also.

So, it's a combination of things. Not a sharp bearing edge. Mixed wood (all maple didn't hit until 1978 - Rogers XP-8). And possible a thin shell with reinforcement rings (if that's the sound you want).

All that said ...... cheapest way to "vintage sound" your Bartons, I'd try coated Ambassador or Emperor heads batter, over smooth white Ambassador reso.
 
or Fiberskyn over coated Amby
Fiberskyn PS bass batter too no port forgsakes amby front;
still 1973
😁
there was a brand of drums those remind me of from the New York store; in house; called Drum-something right around the time the internet came around

image


Drummer World I think they were called
Randy Jones
 
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You can, not change heads, edges and all , but change style touch and approach
incorporate vintage jazzy style into your outlook towards the drums
That's what does it. The Set itself is just the icing on the cake you bake

pick up the old Jazz influences ian paice Mitch Mitchell Mike Shrieve had; blend and bend in some Elvin some Krupa and some old Blues drummers and your sound will be vintage regardless of the set. Bring the 100 year history to them. from ragtime to no time

Leave no George L. Stone unturned
 
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harryconway said:
Not all "vintage" drums were thin shelled. Ludwig, Rogers, & Slingerland were, with more rounded bearing edges & reinforcement rings. Gretsch were straight shelled, but did have fairly rounded bearing edges also.

So, it's a combination of things. Not a sharp bearing edge. Mixed wood (all maple didn't hit until 1978 - Rogers XP-8). And possible a thin shell with reinforcement rings (if that's the sound you want).

All that said ...... cheapest way to "vintage sound" your Bartons, I'd try coated Ambassador or Emperor heads batter, over smooth white Ambassador reso.
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That’s great advice , thank you
 
harryconway said:
Not all "vintage" drums were thin shelled. Ludwig, Rogers, & Slingerland were, with more rounded bearing edges & reinforcement rings. Gretsch were straight shelled, but did have fairly rounded bearing edges also.
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Gretsch shells were THIN, just more plies of thinner veneers. I'm not sure if they're any thicker than the straight 3-ply shell of Ludwig, etc.. In fact, the current Ludwig Legacy (reissue 3-ply) is a hair THICKER than the Classic Maple (6.35 mm vs 6 mm).
Also Gretsch bearing edges vary. Toms may be highly rounded or so I've heard, but snares can be fairly sharp (for a 30-degree) with very little backcut. With a pair of cast hoops and 42-strand wires, this should be the polar opposite to a stereotypical vintage tone - except it isn't.

The OP has got a versatile shell with highly vintage sizes (formant), so with good heads and tuning it shouldn't be hard to get a vintage tone. I'd try a Vintage Ambassador or Fiberskyn, and try tuning them a little higher than the OP's been used to. Maybe the OP's "like lower tuning" means that the drums resonate the longest at the pitches, which isn't exactly a "vintage" tone.
 
I can get pretty close to "vintage" sounds with standard, modern straight wall shells, but it's always missing that little something. (I don't think it matters in most environments, but I can hear the difference.)

I can't speak for what YOU think of as a vintage sound, but for myself, the elements that create the missing piece are the re-ring construction and the wider, rounded bearing edge. I've heard modern drums with these elements, and *boom*, there's the vintage vibe I can only get close to with my modern shells and sharp bearing edge.
 
My best answer is to go listen and play to some vintage kits to see what your ears tell you.

This is what I did. I now own 4 vintage kits, and they are all wonderful instruments.
 
My Tama Superstar with very thin shells has what I consider a "vintage" jazz sound. I think Barton toms are 6mm thick. Tama SC are 5mm. I have owned Barton drums and liked them very much. Only reason I sold was 1. I bought a 22" kick (bass for you jazz cats) and it just wasn't my cuppa, and 2. I really wanted a kick drum mounted rack tom. My Tama SC kit with an 18" kick with rack mount works better for me, and the Tama 5mm toms are really musical and sing - great for what I consider a vintage jazz sound.

Now, the Tama has a sharper 45 degree edge, so it's not exactly a rounded bearing. Maybe the combo of very thin shells and sharper bearing edges contribute to the musical sound I consider vintage jazz; a rounder edge would dull the sound maybe? FYI I use clear Emperor heads for batter sides. And I tune lower than traditional jazz, but still tight enough I get good stick bounce. I use the kit for both small quiet jazz combo, and also a louder blues band. Last week playing with blues band, the venue asked the guitar to turn down his volume, but said drums were fine. I don't think I could have played them any louder.

I have a Gretsch Cat Club for my practice kit. On that kit I used coated Remo Ambassador batter heads to help control the sound. Don't need that much control on the Tama SC. I think the Tama rims are a bit thicker (1.6 vs 1.3 maybe?). The Gretsch shells have 30 degree bearing edges and I think shells are 7mm thick. I still get a vintage sound out of them, too.
 
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A *huge* piece of what we think of as a vintage sound comes from the vintage recording process. After all, at the time of recording, the cymbals were brand new with no patina, the drums were “the latest technology”, and as people have pointed out above, the drum designs were sometimes what we think of as “modern”: thick shells, sharp bearing edges, die cast hoops, maple.

But the older recording methods often introduced distortions, like changes in frequency range, reduced dynamic range, clipping, saturation. And because of the tubes and audio transformers used, clipping can sound like smoothness and warmth, not like a harsh sound. So we have to adjust our expectations of what the drums sound like in person up close.

As far as the kit itself, go with heads that imitate calfskin, and tune them for a “round” sound. Eg for toms I tune the reso head about a third or fourth below the batter head. The heads I like best for a warm thick sound are Remo Weatherking Vintage A, and Aquarian Super 2 coated. They’re similar designs.
 
bongoman said:
A *huge* piece of what we think of as a vintage sound comes from the vintage recording process. After all, at the time of recording, the cymbals were brand new with no patina, the drums were “the latest technology”, and as people have pointed out above, the drum designs were sometimes what we think of as “modern”: thick shells, sharp bearing edges, die cast hoops, maple.

But the older recording methods often introduced distortions, like changes in frequency range, reduced dynamic range, clipping, saturation. And because of the tubes and audio transformers used, clipping can sound like smoothness and warmth, not like a harsh sound. So we have to adjust our expectations of what the drums sound like in person up close.

As far as the kit itself, go with heads that imitate calfskin, and tune them for a “round” sound. Eg for toms I tune the reso head about a third or fourth below the batter head. The heads I like best for a warm thick sound are Remo Weatherking Vintage A, and Aquarian Super 2 coated. They’re similar designs.
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Sorry I missed vintage = thick shells. Most of the vintage kits had re-rings because the shells were thin, right?

And cymbals may not have been new in the 50's if drummer was playing them in 40's. Same with 60's if drummer was playing them in the 50's.

Maybe your vintage eras are different than my vintage eras lol.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
Sorry I missed vintage = thick shells. Most of the vintage kits had re-rings because the shells were thin, right?
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The 3-ply Ludwig and Slingerland shells were a total of 1/4” thick, before the re rings. Modern day shells have more plies, but are around 3/16” thick. The rings were needed because the production techniques didn’t lend consistency or structural reliability to the shells. My 70s Ludwigs look like the drum builder just spread some glue, haphazardly slapped the plies together, shrugged his shoulders and said, “Eh, good enough!” But they sound sooooo good.
 
I think using a thicker than normal head can overcome some of the bite and clarity of more modern drums with sharper edges. I've tried Aquarian Deep Vintage heads on a modern kit with sharp edges and it made them a lot more thumpy and, well, deep sounding.
 
caddywumpus said:
The 3-ply Ludwig and Slingerland shells were a total of 1/4” thick, before the re rings. Modern day shells have more plies, but are around 3/16” thick. The rings were needed because the production techniques didn’t lend consistency or structural reliability to the shells. My 70s Ludwigs look like the drum builder just spread some glue, haphazardly slapped the plies together, shrugged his shoulders and said, “Eh, good enough!” But they sound sooooo good.
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I thought each ply was 1/16 on old Slingerlands? That's only 4.7625mm and needed rerings to avoid warping.

But most modern shells are not 3/16 (4.7625mm). Tama SC at around 5mm is on very thin side of modern. Isn't 6mm or 7mm more the modern standard for "thin"? 7mm being a pretty standard thickness for modern shells?
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
Most of the vintage kits had re-rings because the shells were thin, right?
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No. The rings were because of their limited ply bending and gluing abilities. The shells were all different thicknesses.
Rattlin' Bones said:
cymbals may not have been new in the 50's if drummer was playing them in 40's. Same with 60's if drummer was playing them in the 50's.

Maybe your vintage eras are different than my vintage eras lol.
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I don’t think ten years makes much difference. *shrug* Imagine if you showed up to a recording session and said you were going for a warm vintage sound, your cymbals were made in 2013! Or even way back in 2001.
 
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