The Ruff

toddbishop said:
Oh, they're written that way in the Buddy Rich book, too. To me that's just a rhythm, given a rudimental name. Like I said there are other schools of thought, I just don't know anyone else who uses that definition for playing snare drum.

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Yeah, that’s not rudimental standard AT ALL. I have no idea who’s out here teaching that. I mean, can I play it that way and make it sound good? Yeah. But it’s not standard
 
Alain Rieder said:
Page 1 of Joe Porcaro’s Drumset Method.

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Right. For whatever it's worth, Joe Porcaro studied with Al Lepak, who studied with Henry Adler (who taught, in his Buddy Rich rudiments book from the 1940's, that all short single stroke rolls were called ruffs). I read an interview with Porcaro in which he said that he studied the Buddy Rich book with Lepak. And as I mentioned before, Tommy Igoe's dad, Sonny Igoe, also studied with Adler. I don't know what source Adler was using for this, though.
 
I don't care too much about the names. I was born in the French speaking part of Switzerland, a country in which people people also speak German, or dialects close to German.
The first drum books I saw were in French, so the names of the "rudimental" drum figures were from the French Napoleonian tradition. A paradiddle is "un moulin" for example.
In Switzerland there's a strong drumming tradition in Basel. I never studied that.
That's in the States that I learned that there was a Swiss Army Triplet figure. I had caught it by ear but didn't know its name.
Recently I asked a Swiss guy who studied Basler drumming if there was an actual "Swiss Army Triplet" in Switzerland. He didn't tell me the name which must be in German, but he told me that "yes but we only play it starting on the right hand."
So to me rudiments are interesting, but I've always been exposed to different names for the same figures, so no big deal...
 
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eddypierce said:
Right. For whatever it's worth, Joe Porcaro studied with Al Lepak, who studied with Henry Adler (who taught, in his Buddy Rich rudiments book from the 1940's, that all short single stroke rolls were called ruffs). I read an interview with Porcaro in which he said that he studied the Buddy Rich book with Lepak. And as I mentioned before, Tommy Igoe's dad, Sonny Igoe, also studied with Adler. I don't know what source Adler was using for this, though.
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That's real interesting, I didn't know about that lineage. I really don't know anything about any of them, except I have Porcaro's book. I was aware of some people using rudimental terminology for everything-- like playing 1e&a2 and calling it a five stroke roll. Maybe it was just Adler's thing all along. I'll pay closer attention.

In Porcaro's book he's developing a three note rhythm as an improvised fill on the drum set. He's using rudimental language, but it's an adapted thing, he's not dealing with the normal form of the snare drum rudiment.
 
toddbishop said:
That's real interesting, I didn't know about that lineage. I really don't know anything about any of them, except I have Porcaro's book. I was aware of some people using rudimental terminology for everything-- like playing 1e&a2 and calling it a five stroke roll. Maybe it was just Adler's thing all along. I'll pay closer attention.

In Porcaro's book he's developing a three note rhythm as an improvised fill on the drum set. He's using rudimental language, but it's an adapted thing, he's not dealing with the normal form of the snare drum rudiment.
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Yeah, Porcaro's book is all about applying rudiments to the drum kit (either in a soloistic/fill fashion, or in timekeeping).
 
toddbishop said:
More grist, from Percussion for Musicians, by Robert McCormick, edited by Tony Cirone-- notable because most other sources that include a sticking just write it as a double. Also some alternative stickings on 4SRs.

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That's the way I was taught to interpret drags - consistent with the roll interpretation. So my default is open (2 grace note) drags for pieces that use open rolls; closed (multiple rebound) drags for pieces that use closed rolls.

Of course, I have seen and heard other interpretations as well.

Jeff
 
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Alain Rieder said:
There's a book by Claus Hessler about the different traditions of drumming
claushessler.com

Claus Hessler's CAMP DUTY UPDATE (English) - Claus Hessler

Englische Version von CAMP DUTY UPDATE
claushessler.com claushessler.com
eBook version available.
I thought I would buy it when it came out, but I haven't yet.
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I was watching a video from Claus. If I remember correctly, he explained that the pataflafla was originally played with two single strokes at the beginning and two flams at the end. The name makes more sense that way; playing it in that manner would be Pat-a-fla(m)-fla(m).

Obviously, the pataflafla is not a ruff or drag rudiment, but is is an example of how things can evolve.

Jeff
 
Here’s another one, from Cirone’s Orchestral Techniques of the Standard Percussion Instruments— I keep turning up my old school books at my mom’s house:

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Of course he's talking about orchestral snare drum, he's not talking about how to play things for conditioning technique.

And, in corps I never played a ruff with a double double, with that notation-- it was always multiple bounce, with buzz very short and tight against the main note. The double stroke is more of a traditional rudimental drumming thing, to me.
 
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toddbishop said:
Here’s another one, from Cirone’s Orchestral Techniques of the Standard Percussion Instruments— I keep turning up my old school books at my mom’s house:

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Of course he's talking about orchestral snare drum, he's not talking about how to play things for conditioning technique.

And, in corps I never played a ruff with a double double, with that notation-- it was always multiple bounce, with buzz very short and tight against the main note. The double stroke is more of a traditional rudimental drumming thing, to me.
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That’s all well and good, but I think Chris Whitten’s point that he was taught to play them open is relevant. Chris does come from the European tradition
 
Push pull stroke said:
Of drumming, both orchestral and rudimental
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And how is that different from the experience of an American who is authority on percussion in European music?

To be clear, I never said there was no other correct answer-- I thought I made it clear I was speaking from my own experience, and the people I learned from. I just question your logic.

@Chris Whitten, do you consider yourself to be a representative of European orchestral and rudimental snare drumming traditions?
 
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