That elusive?sound (in your head)

I always liked this kick drum sound on Tommy's playing. I suppose the engineer / producer is responsible.
It's another fun one to play and try to make it groove as well as he does.

 
equipmentdork said:
I've been chasing sounds all my life. I was always enamored of the kick drum sound that had a "thock" to it rather than a "thump"--think of bouncing a tennis ball. It was sort of a Phil Rudd sound, so I bought a 20" Sonor Phonic kick that had a PS3 and a Remo Muffl--bingo.

Another one I chased was the Third Eye Blind "Semi-Charmed Life" snare sound. Again, bought a bunch of Sonor drums before I found out that it was a Pearl Export snare with an early Powerstroke head on it. I have not tried that combo just yet.

These days, I just chase a good tuning all around my kit. If I grab a certain kit and it works in the room, I'll likely bring it again if I play that same room.



Dan
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Way yonder too many choices out there these days. Ringo got about every kind of sound I could ever want to hear from a drum and a few I hope never to hear again: all with 3-ply Ludwigs as far as I know. Bewildering array of choices out there with every one of them sporting more and more florid and flatuent adjectives telling you how/why their product is different and/or better than the competition. I hear you though. Steve Smith's drum sound on Enigmatic Ocean is still one of my favorite sounding recorded kits. John Bonham's sound on Zeppelin I is up there too, and for decades I assumed those were Ludwig. Now there are folks who think those were Slingerlands and a Slingerland Sound King snare.
 
BrokenStick said:
Good Grief. I haven't thought about that album in 40 years.
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I'm pretty disappointed that my last band leader out of the blue said he wanted to play that song but I decided to leave before the bass player could learn it.
 
2 hit wonder said:
I'm pretty disappointed that my last band leader out of the blue said he wanted to play that song but I decided to leave before the bass player could learn it.
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Man, there were four or five albums of his on heavy rotation my junior and senior years in HS. Eventually, they faded to the back of the stack and never were replaced with CDs. That was a definite blast from the past.
 
BrokenStick said:
Way yonder too many choices out there these days. Ringo got about every kind of sound I could ever want to hear from a drum and a few I hope never to hear again: all with 3-ply Ludwigs as far as I know. Bewildering array of choices out there with every one of them sporting more and more florid and flatuent adjectives telling you how/why their product is different and/or better than the competition. I hear you though. Steve Smith's drum sound on Enigmatic Ocean is still one of my favorite sounding recorded kits. John Bonham's sound on Zeppelin I is up there too, and for decades I assumed those were Ludwig. Now there are folks who think those were Slingerlands and a Slingerland Sound King snare.
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I am one of those folks. Listen to the toms in particular. Plus, I also have a late 60s Slingerland kit and recorded it with a wide-open bass drum and yup! sounds a lot like that kit. Jury out on Sound King on that, though he DID use one at one point. I still hear a Supra on that.

It goes to show that it's NOT 100% the drums--the drummer ultimately makes the sound.


Dan
 
equipmentdork said:
I am one of those folks. Listen to the toms in particular. Plus, I also have a late 60s Slingerland kit and recorded it with a wide-open bass drum and yup! sounds a lot like that kit. Jury out on Sound King on that, though he DID use one at one point. I still hear a Supra on that.

It goes to show that it's NOT 100% the drums--the drummer ultimately makes the sound.


Dan
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For decades, Zeppelin I was the quintessential Ludwig sound in my head. Sure, there were others too, but that was my REFERENCE sound. It is what I came back to again and again. Supra or Sound King ... IDK. It just sounds good, and I have no clue. The point is the guys making these discoveries are not doing it by SOUND; they are doing it by PHOTOS. The first and second Doors albums were on Gretsch drums, and again I assumed a Gretsch snare--probably a 4160. Nope, photographic evidence suggests yet another Supra. I saw something a week or two back that Baker's Wheels of Fire snare was a Broadway Leedy. Again, for decades I assumed it was a Ludwig. It's one of my all-time favorite snare sounds. It isn't, however, one I would likely try and chase.

With maybe a few exceptions, I think the drum(s) themselves make up something less than ten percent of the sound. Heads, edges, sticks and drummer make up the bulk. As I have said before, snares seem to be the exception here.
 
2 hit wonder said:
I always liked this kick drum sound on Tommy's playing. I suppose the engineer / producer is responsible.
It's another fun one to play and try to make it groove as well as he does.

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Heat in the street is one of the recordings I've mentioned over the past month as well as Robbie Bachmans sound on NOT FRAGILE..Kunkell on Ronstadts Mad Love..Steve Smith on Don't stop believing..but listen to Steve's bass drum sound on his first DVD (VHS) you can also listen to the bass drum sound on Greatful deads Touch of grey. (All phonic and or phonic plus.) All of these were instrumental in putting that sound (in my head). It was a sound where the universe was tapping my shoulder saying wake up..your sound! Is here.
 
Bozozoid said:
Heat in the street is one of the recordings I've mentioned over the past month as well as Robbie Bachmans sound on NOT FRAGILE..Kunkell on Ronstadts Mad Love..Steve Smith on Don't stop believing..but listen to Steve's bass drum sound on his first DVD (VHS) you can also listen to the bass drum sound on Greatful deads Touch of grey. (All phonic and or phonic plus.) All of these were instrumental in putting that sound (in my head). It was a sound where the universe was tapping my shoulder saying wake up..your sound! Is here.
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Is that YouTube Heat in the Street a remix. The lows are way more prominent than I remember. Thankfully, we don't all share the same tastes. There is nothing of BTO's drum sounds I have ever liked. Upon further review, that tune you mentioned is okay. I was thinking more of the BTO sound on Takin' Care of Business.
 
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I stopped chasing my own private 'elusive sound' when I realized the illusion that my set was changing with passing storm fronts...the reality being that it was my ears.

I shoot for ballparks appropriate to the game not specific upper deck lights now.
 
Otto said:
I stopped chasing my own private 'elusive sound' when I realized the illusion that my set was changing with passing storm fronts...the reality being that it was my ears.

I shoot for ballparks appropriate to the game not specific upper deck lights now.
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IDK. I never did any studio work. All my gigging was a bunch of small clubs back in the '70s and early '80s. My big fear was not playing so loud I would get fired. At no time was I miced up.
 
"don't worry about your sound
worry about your moves
your moves make the sounds"
--Marvin Gaye 1972 on the set of Trouble Man
 
BrokenStick said:
Is that YouTube Heat in the Street a remix. The lows are way more prominent than I remember. Thankfully, we don't all share the same tastes. There is nothing of BTO's drum sounds I have ever liked. Upon further review, that tune you mentioned is okay. I was thinking more of the BTO sound on Takin' Care of Business.
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I never had it on vinyl, or at least listened with drummer ears, but the CD sounds like that and I think I would've bought it in the 93 to 95 time frame.

As a rookie drummer I remember asking the owner of a music store how to get my kick to sound like that specific album.
 
equipmentdork said:
I've been chasing sounds all my life. I was always enamored of the kick drum sound that had a "thock" to it rather than a "thump"--think of bouncing a tennis ball. It was sort of a Phil Rudd sound, so I bought a 20" Sonor Phonic kick that had a PS3 and a Remo Muffl--bingo.

Another one I chased was the Third Eye Blind "Semi-Charmed Life" snare sound. Again, bought a bunch of Sonor drums before I found out that it was a Pearl Export snare with an early Powerstroke head on it. I have not tried that combo just yet.

These days, I just chase a good tuning all around my kit. If I grab a certain kit and it works in the room, I'll likely bring it again if I play that same room.



Dan
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Hmm?..so you like that thock...listen 🎧 to kunkell on Ronstadts Mad Love LP..youtube. Any song. Yer gonna hear that thock on EVERY TUNE. Tell me I'm wrong. 😃
 
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2 hit wonder said:
I never had it on vinyl, or at least listened with drummer ears, but the CD sounds like that and I think I would've bought it in the 93 to 95 time frame.

As a rookie drummer I remember asking the owner of a music store how to get my kick to sound like that specific album.
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They screwed up all kinds of CDs in the early days. Some were unlistenable. It just sounds more bass heavy than I remember, but it is a 40 ish year old memory, and the audio gear is totally different. My memory is probably flawed, or maybe it is the YouTube compression and whatever else they do to the sound.

My rookie kit was one of those made in Japan types with no bottom heads and no floor tom. No chance in hell of getting a studio bought sound out of that, and the sound I would have wanted was Keith Moon on Tommy. No Modern Drummer at that point, and there was no music store in my rural community. Pretty much self taught with no one to ask questions of. Got first REAL kit a few years later, and the differences in sound were almost ineffable, and then MD came along: wow, actual drum shops with 40% off and not a mom and pop store that ordered everything in at retail prices. I suspect that mom and pop store also had a tax for "out of towners." Gas stations in those small towns absolutely did that sort of thing.

MD opened me up to a lot of possibilities I wasn't aware of. I experimented with different heads and kinds of muffling. Anyone remember Dead Ringers? I could get great sounds after a while, but the problem with chasing that "elusive sound" is that it is ELUSIVE. It is also ephemeral: it doesn't travel. I ABSOLUTELY fuss and muss over getting A SOUND I want, but it isn't ever a sound on record. It is a sound I know I can, and have gotten, before from that drum. Usually, that is when I change heads or on the rare occasion when the drums are relocated. It stops short of obsessive. Snare drums might be the exception.
 
BrokenStick said:
They screwed up all kinds of CDs in the early days. Some were unlistenable. It just sounds more bass heavy than I remember, but it is a 40 ish year old memory, and the audio gear is totally different. My memory is probably flawed, or maybe it is the YouTube compression and whatever else they do to the sound.

My rookie kit was one of those made in Japan types with no bottom heads and no floor tom. No chance in hell of getting a studio bought sound out of that, and the sound I would have wanted was Keith Moon on Tommy. No Modern Drummer at that point, and there was no music store in my rural community. Pretty much self taught with no one to ask questions of. Got first REAL kit a few years later, and the differences in sound were almost ineffable, and then MD came along: wow, actual drum shops with 40% off and not a mom and pop store that ordered everything in at retail prices. I suspect that mom and pop store also had a tax for "out of towners." Gas stations in those small towns absolutely did that sort of thing.

MD opened me up to a lot of possibilities I wasn't aware of. I experimented with different heads and kinds of muffling. Anyone remember Dead Ringers? I could get great sounds after a while, but the problem with chasing that "elusive sound" is that it is ELUSIVE. It is also ephemeral: it doesn't travel. I ABSOLUTELY fuss and muss over getting A SOUND I want, but it isn't ever a sound on record. It is a sound I know I can, and have gotten, before from that drum. Usually, that is when I change heads or on the rare occasion when the drums are relocated. It stops short of obsessive. Snare drums might be the exception.
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I remember the Dear Ringer name as a product. Was it a Zero Ring thing?

Gonna search out the vinyl of Heat... and spin it now that you have my curiosity up. Still have turn tables and a pile of Klipsch and other speakers in this room.

The retail money spent at music stores went into an EDUCATION column of P and L tables. Because the products often were too costly.
 
2 hit wonder said:
I remember the Dear Ringer name as a product. Was it a Zero Ring thing?

Gonna search out the vinyl of Heat... and spin it now that you have my curiosity up. Still have turn tables and a pile of Klipsch and other speakers in this room.

The retail money spent at music stores went into an EDUCATION column of P and L tables. Because the products often were too costly.
Click to expand...
Dead Ringers were essentially like 0-Rings except they had a foam backing kind of like weather stripping, and they stuck to the underside of the head. Awful things unless you wanted that super dead '70s sound. I might still have that Heat in the Street LP some place. I replaced a lot of that rock stuff with CDs as soon as I found the CD version. That was one (all the Travers stuff for that matter) was not among the ones I reacquired on CD. Lot of crazy nostalgia associated with those recordings.
 
Bozozoid said:
C'mon! You guys!...i love that drum sound. Can you see us three having beers together throwing calamari at each other 45 minutes later 😃
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See, that's funny to me! I don't even think of the sound on that album as "drum sounds." 🤣
 
Winston_Wolf said:
I've spent a lot of time over the last 10 years or so buying a lot of different drum heads, and trying out a lot of different tunings.

All of the different heads I've tried has really helped me develop a sense for what a particular detail (1-ply/2-ply, dot, coating, etc.) does for the overall sound, to the point I'm better at knowing if I'm wanting "sound A" I'm going to get to it more quickly with "head choice C" or whatever.

I've also learned if I ever have a new snare that it gets a coated Ambassador at some point before I form my final opinion of the drum.

Learning a better tuning system also helped me really dial in my sound. Finding Bob Gatzen's tuning videos really awakened my skill at tuning and helped me better understand WHY a particular tuning sounds good.
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I sought that video out last night with high hopes. I nodded off only to be rudely jarred awake by a hair dryer. Everything I need to know about tuning can be covered in 12 minutes.
 
I remember reading a two issue article in Modern Drummer magazine in the early 90’s that featured 40 famous drummers. Seemed like any time one of them would say “always do this”. The next guy would say “never do that”. ;)

I think one of the biggest problems we have discussion what tuning or tone or cymbals should sound like is there is no standard for what they should sound like. I remember having Billy Cobham doing a drum clinic at my store. Someone asked him what cymbal he used on some recording and he told them. And then he said, the cymbal didn’t sound live anything like it sounded on the recording because of all the processing added in the process.

I have preferences for sure, but as long as something sounds acceptable, I‘m more concerned my playing ability than about my tone and don’t really care what kind of tree it was carved out of.
 
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