Tempo

Luv4drums

Luv4drums

Active Member
Someone mentioned tempo changes in a post. I personally hate it when a song speeds up intentionally building up at the end and the #1 worst of those is the 20 minute ending of a live version of Freebird. Nazereth Hair of the dog is the greatest mixed release EVER, they do that at the end of one of the tunes on that, but that is the exception for me because they did it so tastefully. But we can do a different note rate with the same tempo to seemingly change the tempo,. That is not what I am talking about. What is the opinion of drummerworld members on increasing the tempo slowly to dramatize the songs ending? It bothers me. The idea of practicing a changing speed on purpose just cringe. Is it as bad as I see it?
 
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Dire Straits had tempo changes in multiple songs, on record and live.
They certainly had a history of songs speeding up to induce more energy and excitement, especially in solos and towards the end of the song.
It's actually hard to pull off well.
I am ok with it for whatever the reason.
 
Chris Whitten said:
Dire Straits had tempo changes in multiple songs, on record and live.
They certainly had a history of songs speeding up to induce more energy and excitement, especially in solos and towards the end of the song.
It's actually hard to pull off well.
I am ok with it for whatever the reason.
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Chris Whitten said:
Dire Straits had tempo changes in multiple songs, on record and live.
They certainly had a history of songs speeding up to induce more energy and excitement, especially in solos and towards the end of the song.
It's actually hard to pull off well.
I am ok with it for whatever the reason.
Click to expand...
It just seems like everything drummers are programmed to NEVER do. Turning your 8th notes into 1/4's or triplets totally feels like a tempo change and those are awesome, like here: This guy is underrated. This is how drummers should change the speed. That fill at 2:05 and then one measure later... That is pretty great time feel changing but its note rates, all still with meter going same tempo. Love this

 
Luv4drums said:
What is the opinion of drummerworld members on increasing the tempo slowly to dramatize the songs ending? It bothers me. The idea of practicing a changing speed on purpose just cringe. Is it as bad as I see it?
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I guess it just depends on the song. Does keeping the same BPM's but double-timing count? If so, the band I'm in does this a couple of times, and it's not so bad.
 
PorkPieGuy said:
I guess it just depends on the song. Does keeping the same BPM's but double-timing count? If so, the band I'm in does this a couple of times, and it's not so bad.
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I like tempo changes like that. That, or a cool half-time bridge or chorus or something. Or in songs like Suspicious Minds where it changes from 4/4 to 6/8. Those are cool.

UN-intentional tempo changes however, not so much. Of course, there are exceptions. Honky Tonk Women, for instance, speeds up a lot, but I'm so used to hearing it that way. If it stayed the same tempo (like it probably does nowadays), it would probably sound odd to my ear.
 
PorkPieGuy said:
I guess it just depends on the song. Does keeping the same BPM's but double-timing count? If so, the band I'm in does this a couple of times, and it's not so bad.
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No double time and half time is good playing. Half time shuffles even better. (light of my love) (Zep)
The note rates are not what I mean. I meant actual bpm changing. The note rates in double time or halftime are just good drumming. What annoys me is the bpm increasing gradually over the phrase, usually 12 bars, Like Freebird. In the nazereth tune I believe it is 12 bars and then the change, and then 12 more and a change while in Free bird, it is a gradual measure to measure change and then it holds. Maybe free bird is just what annoys me. I think a tune should always be the same tempo, with a play on note rates. like with 8ths become 8th note triplets, but the click stays on the count. Those are what are in the no doubt video and it is cool how he puts in like one measure then goes back and then 1/4 notes on the snare, then back to triplets. If you do this it is tasteful time changes but not the tempo. Changing tempo is not a good practice in drumming as we all have been programmed to be able to hold the tempo steady. If you are going to increase the tempo, it should not be combined with changing note rates though. In my openly humble opinion. I am glad to be here to learn from other drummers. This seems to be a pretty cool community at drummerworld forums. Thanks for putting up with me.
 
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Luv4drums said:
Someone mentioned tempo changes in a post. I personally hate it when a song speeds up intentionally building up at the end and the #1 worst of those is the 20 minute ending of a live version of Freebird. Nazereth Hair of the dog is the greatest mixed release EVER, they do that at the end of one of the tunes on that, but that is the exception for me because they did it so tastefully. But we can do a different note rate with the same tempo to seemingly change the tempo,. That is not what I am talking about. What is the opinion of drummerworld members on increasing the tempo slowly to dramatize the songs ending? It bothers me. The idea of practicing a changing speed on purpose just cringe. Is it as bad as I see it?
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It seemed to work well for Meghan White.
 
toddbishop said:
It's an ordinary musical thing-- both speeding up and slowing down.

I don't know about "cringe", is playing in C Major cringe, is a fermata cringe-- it's just stuff, it's up to people to do something good with it.
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IF you start playing notes outside of the key, it is cringe. If you heard me play guitar you would cringe.
 
Push pull stroke said:
we


Usually they are, but I can think of plenty of examples where they’re not. But you’re right
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Thanks, but, I am not trying to be right or wrong, I was just trying to clarify the specifics of what I find annoying.

My opinion is always right... obviously. (heehee) jk

Humor is soo difficult to type. Wow I look back at a sarcasm or some type of smart alec remark I made, even just now, moments after making one, and I figure i have to explain I was not using the political term right/left, in my otherwise intended sarcastic goofing. Now the humor is gone. O man I should not have mixed that mcmuffin with my coffee like than, wow. I'll have to come back later...
 
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In the entire history of music, our current obsession with flat-line even tempos has only existed for the past 30 or so years.

Good feeling, even tempos - yes.

Tempo variations for musical effect - yes.

Until now... like a generation unable (unwilling) to embrace the difference between practicing (listening to the metronome) and playing (listening to the other musicians and the whole effect being created).

(Full disclaimer - I play to clicks everyday - but also try to stay well aware that doing so is a compromise, a too often necessary evil.)
 
Luv4drums said:
I personally hate it when a song speeds up intentionally building up at the end and the #1 worst of those is the 20 minute ending of a live version of Freebird.
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On the bright side, the song ends sooner.

(I don't dislike Skynyrd, just that song)
 
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Foghat - slow ride. The last minute or so goes from Slow Ride to Fast Ride.

I was listening to a Pantera song that just barely slows the tempo on the pre-chorus. It's effective. "Heavier" in this case. It's a sudden change though, not the gradual increase/decrease you're talking about.
 
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There are other ways to give the feeling of tempo increase while keeping the BPM consistent.

Moving your placement of some/all of your strikes just behind/on/ahead of the beat - changing the placement over time...so you start behind, move onto the beat...then move ahead of it.

Dynamics really help the illusion as well(going from p to m to f gives an illusion of tempo increase)...as does duration of the note(staccato where you want the urgent feel...maybe more sticky when trying to give the illusion of slowing down).

What pulse you hear in your head can also flavor your playing to feel faster/slower while not changing BPM...hear quarter notes in your head to reflect a slow feel, move to hearing eighth note pulse in your head, then move to hearing sixteenth note pulse to create the illusion of acceleration - we tend to create urgency(define that as you will) when hearing a greater degree of subdivision while playing the same thing.
 
Rick Beato has an episode on this. He looks at AC/DC and The Police and finds the Choruses a few clicks faster than the Verses.
Some Rolling Stones songs speed up through the song (esp. Route 66)
Live versions often do it for effect - the energy builds throughout the song, gives it something extra.
So it isn’t good or bad, just a tool that can be used appropriately.
 
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