ottog1979
Senior Member
Well... your screen name is Square after all.
Syncopated? Yes or no?
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Square
El Conquistador
I like that. I can actually begin to feel a groove there. I’m going to try just playing that as a loop next time I get behind a kit.
Maverick10
Senior Member
Hello how are you?Is this what you would consider a syncopated rhythm?
I’m working on this and it’s killing me. I can play it, but I can’t “feel it”.
The end goal is to work on bass drum independence.
Any thoughts you’d like to share would be welcomed.
Groove Scribe
Groove Scribe allows drummers to easily create grooves, listen, share, print sheet music, and more. Use the Groove Scribe to create new grooves, figure out the groove to your favorite song, or write down the groove to your latest tune.gscribe.com
So I've read through all of the replies and think there are some good points in there. I listened to the recording a few times, 1.) so when giving my $0.02 worth It comes from having heard the track and 2.) it's a cool track.
I think what everyone is saying is great advice and def worth looking at and reviewing. But it's all coming from a Drummer's perspective vs a musical perspective. We drummers love to break things down and get into the weeds on something being syncopated or poly or this drum thing or that etc etc. IT's Great!! I love doing that, and miss when I use to sit around with other drummers from drumline and just break it all down and talk shop. It's a great tool and is def something that you should be able to do. BUT when it's time to play the song with a group of other non-drummers for an audience of mostly non-drummers, they won't care about all the fun drum things we care about. They'll only care if it sounds good and feels good.
so for me,
The first thing I heard was how unison the kick, bass, and piano we're playing and this unison pattern creates the melody. The bass and piano add a little bit here and there in between, but keep the focus on the unison melodic patter. Which is cool.
In order to get the "feel" of the song you have to be able to not have to think about the placement of the kick pattern, right. But what can help is look at the kick pattern as a melody. Try singing the kick pattern and doing the 2 & 4. Then add the hats in, but still singing the kick pattern as a Melody. If you can remember the melody which is the unison part the Bass and Piano are playing, then you'll be able to get that kick in there and the feel will come more naturally.
A good book for working on this exact thing, (playing an ostinato with the hands and reading/playing a kick pattern like it's a melody is the a book call "The New Breed" by Gary Chester. It'll be worth checking out if you've not seen it or worked out of it.
Lastly, the swing feel you're hearing, to me is more implied that actually anything being swung. This is achieved by relaxing the tension in the space of the 8th notes and 16th notes a bit in relation to the tempo. If that makes sense. If not let me know and I can go into more detail.
I hope my $0.02 was at least worth $0.01, and that something I said is helpful.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Square
El Conquistador
Thnx for looking at this and offer your help on it.
I’ve been playing this all week and trying work it up to an unreasonable speed so that I ca relax and play it at the correct tempo needed for the song.
I’m making progress and can play it now as a sort of groove without the music. In the coming week I will begin to add the music. Your advice on using the melody to guide my bass drum against the ostinato of the hands should help.
Thank you again and I’ll have a look at that book.
Maverick10
Senior Member
You're welcome. Happy to help. Yeah that book, is great for working on this type of beats/grooves and sight reading as well cause in the book as you'll see, it'll give you an ostinato to play with your hands and left foot, and then you go to the kick melodies and read them down and they don't repeat patterns in it (for the most part). It's a Fav of mine for sure.
Also don't forget to try it slow as well. That helps solidify that neuro paths in your brain and builds muscle memory. Then you can speed it up and slow it down at will.
Square
El Conquistador
Oh yeah for sure. My post was worded a bit weird. I have been doing it slow all week, I have little choice. Just the last couple of days I started trying to speed it up. I just push it until it begins to fall apart, then it's back down several BPMs to where it works. I'll play it there for several minutes then try again.
Funny how the brain works. I hit a wall in some aspect of whatever I'm working on, then finally decide enough is enough. Sleep comes and brings in a new day. Amazingly, I can now push past the dragon I was fighting before. Maybe not by much, but progress for sure. I'm sure it's the same for most everyone, hence the importance of regular daily practice.
I'm in no rush. Slow and steady wins the race, so they say. I kind of figure I'll be working this for quite some time. I'll see my instructor today. We'll see if he is pleased with my progress, and we'll see what kind of curve ball he throws me.
Maverick10
Senior Member
ok good. May I ask how long you've been playing? Yes working with your instructor is good for sure. You should ask about that book i mentioned.
Maverick10
Senior Member
Progress is progress and it doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you're making it.
I've had that happen where something i'm working on is not coming along at all, I step away for a bit and let my mind take a break and then I come back and i'm able to do it. Sometimes getting your mind out of the way is the best thing.
Square
El Conquistador
My journey started as rehab due to a stroke. That was 2019, with just a pad and sticks on my own. I was trying to regain function in my right hand. Progress in that regard went astonishingly well.
In about August of 2020 I decided to be serious about it and sought out drum lessons. So I’m going to say about three years. My second year of that I dedicated strictly to hands.
Overall I’ve taken a rather unconventional path. I have always focused on technical aspects of things rather than just playing. My feeling is that over the next few years I will establish a base, a vocabulary if you will. The next step will be musical application.
I find that I very much enjoy the process of picking things apart and learning the mechanics of them.
Maverick10
Senior Member
Ha, then you picked the right hobby for picking things apart and learning the mechanics of it. It's so much fun to break a beat down, to learn how it's intertwined and what not. But what'll happen is as you get more experience doing it, it'll become easier. While I agree getting the basics down, i'm a big proponent of that, and building your vocabulary drum technique wise, I would say work on the musical aspect in conjunction with the technique if you can. It'll help in the long run, and will help with the Feel part that you're seeking to be able to do. Plus if you listen and read about a lot of the top drummers, the first thing they usually say when it comes to making music, is to build the technique and then forget it and just create music. What that means is to have your technique down so good that you can let go of having to think about it while you're playing. You know?
also lots and lots of listening to music helps build your music vocabulary to work with your technique vocabulary.
Congrats on your journey and coming as far as you have, that's really great to hear!!! Glad your drumming and health are improving!! Keep it up and welcome to the Drum Family!!
Alain Rieder
Silver Member
The second section of my Time Manipulation Drum Book focuses on progressively studying 4:3 polyrhythmic groove patterns with various rhythmic displacements.
You can grab the book on my website, Amazon, or as an eBook from Hudson Music.
Practicing these exercises will give you the control to use these patterns in a musical context.
Check out an example of the second exercise from this section on my blog:
www.timemanipulation.com
You can grab the book on my website, Amazon, or as an eBook from Hudson Music.
Practicing these exercises will give you the control to use these patterns in a musical context.
Check out an example of the second exercise from this section on my blog:
Time Manipulation - Section 2 - Polyrhythmic Patterns
In Section 2 of Time Manipulation, new patterns are formed using some of the basic rhythmic figures seen in Section 1. This is done in a musical way, using polyrhythms that are ubiquitous in many musical traditions, as well as in current styles.
www.timemanipulation.com
jda
Diamond Member
rarely goes across the bar line tho
usually confined to one measure
this somewhat illogically (because it doesn't resolve naturally)
If this was a true 4:3 exercise
It would use first three beats of each measure
but no... it has to continue past the bar line into the second measure- now on the off beat- and needs "rescued" resolved by a single beat (4) of the second measure (else it would never end
No wonder it's only used sparsely in the Song
only exercise I can recall a poly rhythm going over and thru the bar (measure) line is Vic Firth Etude #22
usually confined to one measure
this somewhat illogically (because it doesn't resolve naturally)
If this was a true 4:3 exercise
It would use first three beats of each measure
but no... it has to continue past the bar line into the second measure- now on the off beat- and needs "rescued" resolved by a single beat (4) of the second measure (else it would never end
No wonder it's only used sparsely in the Song
only exercise I can recall a poly rhythm going over and thru the bar (measure) line is Vic Firth Etude #22
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Square
El Conquistador
Thnx. I will have a look at that.The second section of my Time Manipulation Drum Book focuses on progressively studying 4:3 polyrhythmic groove patterns with various rhythmic displacements.
You can grab the book on my website, Amazon, or as an eBook from Hudson Music.
Practicing these exercises will give you the control to use these patterns in a musical context.
Check out an example of the second exercise from this section on my blog:
Time Manipulation - Section 2 - Polyrhythmic Patterns
In Section 2 of Time Manipulation, new patterns are formed using some of the basic rhythmic figures seen in Section 1. This is done in a musical way, using polyrhythms that are ubiquitous in many musical traditions, as well as in current styles.
Alain Rieder
Silver Member
Here is an example from my book (page 41).
It shows a three-measure pattern, and the pattern you’re working on is basically the first two measures of my example.
In the book you will find more examples with audio, as well as the exercises themselves that will give you the practical expertise to have fun with these rhythms.
Alain Rieder
Silver Member
Also note that the first measure of this example, played with a sixteenth note shuffle feel, is the pattern Jeff Porcaro used for the song Rosana.
Here's another example from my Time Manipulation book:
