Al Strange
Platinum Member
Deen may as well be playing my Exports up there! Is the age of the silent stage truly upon us?
Silent stage age: do your drums matter anymore?
- Thread starter Al Strange
- Start date
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
Well in the first few minutes he says he hates it.
I think the ultimate set up is a combo of triggers (triggering album sounds) and real drums.
I think the ultimate set up is a combo of triggers (triggering album sounds) and real drums.
Al Strange
Platinum Member
The first time I heard about this approach was Butch Vig with Garbage. Have you come across this yourself or seen other bands doing it to this extent Chris?
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
Well Vig really likes V-Drums and has tweaked his kits in the module to accurately represent the Garbage album sounds.
The majority of people are going hybrid, acoustic drums and cymbals supported by samples (or v-drum sounds), plus pads for extra sounds like loops and electronics.
The Roland TM series of products if you want specific sounds (from your album), or triggering v-drum sounds to add oomph to your kit.
Volume was the issue here with Journey, and seems to be a growing problem (maybe with ageing bands), with The Who also switching to a quiet stage and v-drums.
The majority of people are going hybrid, acoustic drums and cymbals supported by samples (or v-drum sounds), plus pads for extra sounds like loops and electronics.
The Roland TM series of products if you want specific sounds (from your album), or triggering v-drum sounds to add oomph to your kit.
Volume was the issue here with Journey, and seems to be a growing problem (maybe with ageing bands), with The Who also switching to a quiet stage and v-drums.
bongoman
Junior Member
There’s a few companies already doing that.
Aerodrums | Air Drums & Virtual Electronic Drum kit
Aerodrums lets you play the drum set in a quiet and portable way. Air drumsticks & pedals that sound and feel as great as digital electric drums. Free shipping.
aerodrums.com
We've gradually reduced our stage volume over the last 20 years, and now my kit is the only audible sound being made on the stage. Not a problem for any of us because we're in-ear and get exactly the mixes we want.
In order to help with the house mix, I'm behind plexi shields so my kit doesn't compete with the mix out front. It's really only an issue in smaller houses, maybe 1500 and under. And while it's not really a problem in larger and open-air venues, there's no reason to change it up for each show. That would just create a lot of extra work for the FOH person.
Does any of that affect me or my playing? Not at all. Do the shields affect my drum sound? Nope, everything is close-mic'd anyway and trimmed way down. Any acoustic affect from the shield isn't picked up.
But the whole thing is done so the audience hears a great mix whether they're in the front row, or the last. They're the reason that musicians give live performances in the first place. Would I change things if none of that mattered? Nope. I love hearing a great mix and the in-ears keep my volume in check to curb further hearing loss.
In order to help with the house mix, I'm behind plexi shields so my kit doesn't compete with the mix out front. It's really only an issue in smaller houses, maybe 1500 and under. And while it's not really a problem in larger and open-air venues, there's no reason to change it up for each show. That would just create a lot of extra work for the FOH person.
Does any of that affect me or my playing? Not at all. Do the shields affect my drum sound? Nope, everything is close-mic'd anyway and trimmed way down. Any acoustic affect from the shield isn't picked up.
But the whole thing is done so the audience hears a great mix whether they're in the front row, or the last. They're the reason that musicians give live performances in the first place. Would I change things if none of that mattered? Nope. I love hearing a great mix and the in-ears keep my volume in check to curb further hearing loss.
Stroman
Diamond Member
This conversation reminds me of something I experienced years ago regarding stage volume. (I don't really have much input about silent stages, unfortunately.)
Anyway, years ago I was at a Rush concert and the PA cut out for a few seconds. Maybe 30 seconds, overall. They kept playing, of course, but the astonishing thing was that Alex's guitar was pretty much the only thing you could still hear! He even drowned out the drums, which blew my mind. I mean, you could still hear the drums, but just barely, whereas the guitar hardly changed at all. Geddy was using a DI box by this time, so there was no bass or vocals at all.
It made me realize how difficult that must have been to get a good mix everywhere in the house.
Another experience I had - I saw the Grateful Dead at a stadium in DC, and there was a terrible storm. They kept playing, but many people left because of the deluge and the mud, so we went right down in front of the stage. It sounded SOOOOoo good there! Their stage mix was loud, but perfectly in balance. It was like you were listening to a stereo, whereas the sound from the seats was the usual echo-y toilet bowl arena sound.
House sound is a very intriguing topic.
Anyway, years ago I was at a Rush concert and the PA cut out for a few seconds. Maybe 30 seconds, overall. They kept playing, of course, but the astonishing thing was that Alex's guitar was pretty much the only thing you could still hear! He even drowned out the drums, which blew my mind. I mean, you could still hear the drums, but just barely, whereas the guitar hardly changed at all. Geddy was using a DI box by this time, so there was no bass or vocals at all.
It made me realize how difficult that must have been to get a good mix everywhere in the house.
Another experience I had - I saw the Grateful Dead at a stadium in DC, and there was a terrible storm. They kept playing, but many people left because of the deluge and the mud, so we went right down in front of the stage. It sounded SOOOOoo good there! Their stage mix was loud, but perfectly in balance. It was like you were listening to a stereo, whereas the sound from the seats was the usual echo-y toilet bowl arena sound.
House sound is a very intriguing topic.
Suburbankidz
Well-known Member
Ye gads...I hope it doesn't come to that. We need to keep the creative human element in there, and making rhythms on drums is such an ancient way of communicating.
BGDurham
Silver Member
Slightly related question but about micing guitars. I often see large guitar amps (e.g., for speakers) on stage and the mike is placed at one speaker. I wonder why guitarists bring such large, multi speaker amps to gigs if they mike just one of the speakers; why not just bring a smaller one speaker amp?
bongoman
Junior Member
Two reasons:
1) the stack of cones is for them to hear onstage, even though the PA mic only needs one.
2) a big stack looks impressive. Stagecraft. Most stadium rock shows and metal bands have a wall of “dummy” speakers for the look, while the actual sound comes from a tiny amp backstage.
Bo Eder
Platinum Member
I think it’s about “show” too. I’d feel gipped if I saw Dave Grohl playing through a little mic’d-up Pignose amp. Just like it bugs me when a drummer uses only three drums. I kinda paid to see a show, so if I see no effort in that department, I’d be disappointed. But - smaller venue jazz concerts are different for me because I’m wowed by their chops. I saw Joe Pass come out with his guitar and he just plugged into the house (nothing else on stage) and was floored for two hours.
totally unrelated, but I did not realize you were weird al's drummer. that's sick!
DrumEatDrum
Platinum Member
It does seem to be a thing in aging bands.
Pete's hearing is such that he can't tour unless the stage volume is low, so he's making Zak play v-drums with The Who.
Neal Schon is 70. He already made Deen get rid of the loud China cymbals. And after everything with Perry, and then Steve Auguie blowing out his vocal cords, the band as a whole is wary of blowing the vocal cords of the current singer. So lower stage volume reduces vocal strain.
Geoff Tate (former Queensryche) has the drummer in his solo band play v-drums to reduce stage volume as his voice isn't what it used to be.
As a drummer, it sucks to see so many bands going this way. But at the same time, I understand the getting older part.
Blk Diamond
Senior Member
DrumEatDrum
Platinum Member
And on a related note, I'm seeing more and more bands get away from that as well.
Metallica doesn't even have amps and speakers anymore, it's all digital. And other bands are either starting to follow that model or already have been for some time.
I've seen some metal bands just mic up a little amp and speaker, but through the PA it sounds like a wall of Marshalls.
GetAgrippa
Diamond Member
Next thing ya know you'll put on a helmet (like Magneto) that forma a neural link with your brain and you play the drums in a virtual space- time matrix you record to mix music with other musicians within the same virtual matrix. All technology no real instruments. Heck you won't even need real people-virtual people making virtual music for a virtual audience. A Brave New World to go where no human kind has gone before-and for good reason because we won't be there it's all virtual people living in a virtual new world. LOL. Why have just reality when you can have virtual reality? My virtual Art has already been implanted into a virtual world and now it's autonomous living without me the real Art. Or am I?
Jeremy Bender
Platinum Member
I guess there will be no more need for solid shell snares & fancy HVLX drum ply toms if we will be expected to deliver perfect drum sounds via triggered samples each time we play on stage in the future.
I think we'd miss playing nice sounding acoustic drums even in a live large venue.
I think we'd miss playing nice sounding acoustic drums even in a live large venue.