However, there's one thing that's really confused me. So many of these very knowledgable guys talk as if the excellence of the drum itself is going to create this perfect sound that in some way is going to improve their playing.
The answer lies somewhere in your dad's Bellson story, Matt. : )
- - A continuation of the sorry Pork Pie kit story. Very cool Aussie band Aurora Jane ( Pol, you heard of them? ), walks into the same bar one night. Takes over the bandstand after the locals, and its like someone snapped a finger and magically upgraded the PA, switched the beat up old Marshall with a new Mesa Boogie tube, and the Pork Pie got tossed for a new awesome sounding kit.
The difference was shockingly palpable. Quality musicians have magic dust on their hands, I guess.
And this is the point whereby I'm going to both agree & disagree with the general feelings of the wize here. Of course Matt, you're completely correct. There's no way that a good drum sound is going to transform a bad player into a good one. A good drum sound isn't even going to mask playing deficiencies, however, to link the desire for a good sound to some form of crutch necessity is wholly incorrect IMO. We can all sight examples of good players making a crap kit sound good. Matt, you posted passionately on the thread about sound guys influencing your sound. You defended your right to have the sound guy faithfully reproduce your sound, & quite rightly too. If that isn't a strong indication of the importance you place on the kit sound, I don't know what is.However, there's one thing that's really confused me. So many of these very knowledgable guys talk as if the excellence of the drum itself is going to create this perfect sound that in some way is going to improve their playing. And I don't just don't see how that's possible.
Andy I don't see how in any way my or anyone else's post implied those things about your viewpoint in particular. For all your self proclaimed admissions of being less than full time or even professional, you perform regularly in public venues, get paid and even receive endorsement incentives. Am I right? Those things hardly place you in the category of the gear hound who learns all there is to know about drum kits before considering the issues related to actually playing one. And yes those kinds of people not only exist, but frequent Internet sites by the thousands, seeing a drum set as much within the context of furniture than a proper musical instrument. All one has to do is observe the view count of any forum to discover that gear threads usually outnumber the next popular thread by a very large margin, while many of that number seldom venture into other discussions. Nor is anything especially wrong with that. My only pertinent comment was that I considered that unusual, much as I would consider unusual those people who purchase magnificent and very expensive Steinway pianos to complement their foyers, but never care to play them.Furthermore, I see no issue with someone being knowledgeable about how their instrument produces a certain sound. I find pleasure in understanding the physics of the thing. This allows me to experiment, & I find great satisfaction in that too. Non of this means that I'm hung up on gear, or that I believe the gear to be the most important thing, of course it isn't. But to suggest that my interest in these areas is to be blind to what really matters, is mildly condescending, presumtious at best, ignorant & elitist at worst. Nothing personal guys.
Hi Matt, I took your statement to strongly infer that those who take a detailed interest in their drum gear, do so because they have a deficiency in their playing. As I take such an interest, I took that to include me. As you have now gone on to say, that can apply to some, but certainly not all those with such an interest. If that's a more accurate representation of your thoughts, I apologise for taking a narrow and specific view of your post.Andy I don't see how in any way my or anyone else's post implied those things about your viewpoint in particular. For all your self proclaimed admissions of being less than full time or even professional, you perform regularly in public venues, get paid and even receive endorsement incentives. Am I right? Those things hardly place you in the category of the gear hound who learns all there is to know about drum kits before considering the issues related to actually playing one. And yes those kinds of people not only exist, but frequent Internet sites by the thousands, seeing a drum set as much within the context of furniture than a proper musical instrument. All one has to do is observe the view count of any forum to discover that gear threads usually outnumber the next popular thread by a very large margin, while many of that number seldom venture into other discussions. Nor is anything especially wrong with that. My only pertinent comment was that I considered that unusual, much as I would consider unusual those people who purchase magnificent and very expensive Steinway pianos to complement their foyers, but never care to play them.
Thanks.
While I do tend to obsess over my own gear, if I have to play a house kit, I try to take the attitude of whatever, they're drums, just play and don't sweat it.
When I was in my early 20's, I did a lot of blues, classic rock type bar gigs.
Then I moved to LA, and for years I was in loud, aggressive hard rock bands.
You know, this amp goes to 11, so this snare drum goes to 11 type stuff.
My sticks got bigger, the cymbals got thicker.
Then the era of loops and sequencers came in, and it was all about playing loud to a stiff click.
In the last few years I've been trying to ramp that down, and get back into better dynamics, and better touch.
In the last few weeks, I've been really making that more of a priority. So I decided to jump in head first into a bunch of blues jams to force myself into situations where I had to play with a better touch. And recently I got some compliments on how well I was able to playing quietly. So I thought I was getting there.
Until last night.
I probably didn't do as bad I as I feel I did, but as I said, I felt totally taken to school.
So while I might not have been the Dick Larry was talking about, I felt like I might as well of been. But at least this Dick learned he needs to go home and practice some more!
. All one has to do is observe the view count of any forum to discover that gear threads usually outnumber the next popular thread by a very large margin, while many of that number seldom venture into other discussions. Nor is anything especially wrong with that. My only pertinent comment was that I considered that unusual, much as I would consider unusual those people who purchase magnificent and very expensive Steinway pianos to complement their foyers, but never care to play them.
A thought about gear hounds and how the gear threads are more popular than the ones about actually playing.
... I have one very small kit and if I can't play even such a simple instrument good enough why should I start changing things and make it even more complicated. The sound is always there I just need to learn how to play it. =/
On Sunday nights, I am part of a 3 piece house band that does an open mic Blues jam. Naturally I get to see the local drummers play, as they use my set.
I just thought I'd share everything that this one guy was doing to give drummers a bad name. Let's call him Dick. Now Dick is not a beginner, I wouldn't cut into a beginner.
First off, when the song was counted off, and Dick fell in, immediately the tempo dragged and stayed dragged. The time felt like it had a 50 kilo weight dragging behind it. The time wasn't bouyant and energizing. This was enough to kill the song right there, but that wasn't enough, Dick was out to really demoralize the tune.
Let's see, his bass drum was barely heard, more than I can say for his backbeat. Talk about your limp handed backbeat. Ugh. You could see the motion, (trad grip) but you couldn't hear his snare hits. His cymbals however were quite present. Not overly, thank someone, but enough to stick out in a bad way. His sonic balance was way off. No concept whatsoever of a popping snare and controlled cymbals with a good solidly played kick.
Way too many fills. Not even good fills, just..."Oh I'll do a (reverse) ascending tom roll in the middle of this verse, because technically, it will fit. No regard to the singer on mic, or the guy trying to build their solo. His fills were limp handed and unconfident to boot. The fills were a little louder than his backbeat, because unfortunately, you could hear them. Stupidly played flat flams (he used these a lot) at the most unexpected (not good sounding) places. Basically, he used 75% of the song so he could play all these stupid noodley fills. Needless to say the concept of groove hadn't yet occurred to this man. I'm thankful he wasn't a hard hitter or it really would have been atrocious.
The man was in his own world. The leader, a tall man who is a total pro concerning stage signaling, (and everything else) turned his entire body fully around to cue the drummer about an upcoming stop, (because he knew the drummer would be out to lunch) but the drummer wasn't mentally with the others, I think he was in Bora Bora or Uzbekistan or someplace. He missed the cues, and missed the stops. So the band takes another lap around the chord progression and they finally get this guys attention, and he did do the stops finally.
At this point, he was being laughed at by the leader, who was shaking his head and smiling as if saying "Ay yi yi" (Oh yeah, it's brutal. you'd better be able to pull your weight with this guy or suffer the embarrassment)
Just to give Dick enough rope to hang himself, the leader decided to give him a drum spot. The whole band stops at the appropriate time.
Nothing. Dead silence.
Dick didn't realize he was getting a spot. Finally after a very pregnant pause, he get's it and goes into this limp, crappy, thing...I don't know what you would call it, but it was as appealing as a fresh pile of steaming doggy poo. I just felt like wearing a dress afterwards lol
Then came the ending of the song, which of course he muffed and there you have it. He covered all the major pitfalls in one song. With 2 more to go! The man was a crash course of what NOT to do. Teachers could use a vid of Dick to illustrate the major pitfalls.
When I got back on my drumkit, my sticks started wailing on me, and my drums cursed me out lol.
This guy totally embarrassed the family.
Just thought I'd share, and remember...
Don't be a Dick.