Playing with a click: as or more important to play without

Any drummers here who never use a metronome and never want to?
Only sporadically, and never with a band. As a rule, I've never liked clicks but I was also mindful of the fact that I should have practiced with them more. You can work that out by the number of the times a bassist looks over at you in alarm.

When I was young I played along with records for hours and hours. Trouble is, my stereo ran faster than 33rpm, and I've been a bit of speeder ever since, hence the bassist's alarm :LOL:

Once I started home recording and needed to add dubs, playing with a click or rhythm box made it tons easier to punch in dubs, fills and fx. Since I was doing all the mixing, I was the one looking in Audacity at all the flamming I did when playing with a click. Holy reality check, Batman! My punishment was re-ding rough takes and manually fixing numerous misaligned notes.

If I had my time again I would have had lessons right from the start, and done far more practice with a click. I was impatient. I just wanted to crank up the stereo and play and to jam.
 
If you want to successfully play with a variety of people, grasp opportunities and generally progress, NOT being able to play with a click, or REFUSING to play with a click will close many avenues and halt many playing invites.

Yup. This is the reason why I've stepped into using a click in the last few years. I've enjoyed gathering up yet another skill in my bag of tools. Prior to that I had never played in a band situation with one. I learned how to play drums before people used them with live bands.
 
I try to do it all:

Play with a click in many different ways,
For example:
with long gaps, displacements, highly subdivided clicks, sequenced grooves, prerecorded tracks, quarter note click etc. learn how to thrive in the different environments where you must conform to the grid.


Also Play without a click with a deep awareness of the freedom given to you and the responsibility to not screw it al up lol. This is where you work on your New Orleans in the cracks groove and and your Latin 6/8 vs cut time conversions

Do it all and stop limiting yourself!
 
If you are playing with a click you don't have to be metronomic, or even sound metronomic.
In many instances a song tempo is a song tempo. It isn't a bad thing to practice starting the song at the right tempo and still be playing the right tempo at the end of the song. That doesn't mean the chorus can't feel a bit on top of the click.
This is very true. I was in the studio at the start of November and all the tracks were cut to a click, with the band all playing live but only I had the click track in my headphones. At some points the band were right with me and the click and at others, particularly going into a chorus the band started to pull away. My job was to keep them within a reasonable distance of the click, but let the music breath and move around it.

At the end of the day the click won't be on the finished track. :)
 
I think about 90%, if not more, of my practice time is along with some kind of time checking thing in the background, whether it'd be a click, some play-along, a tune I'm playing with, a loop or an app like iReal. I'll admit the click is used the least and everything else the most, because I simply find it beneficial to hear how everything I play/practice relates to form and chord changes.

For my part, I see literally zero downsides in doing that, on the contrary...when I get to the point where I can "cut loose" in a relaxed fashion within and around the tempo provided to me in the background in practice, I know my time will be okay when I do it for real with actual people. It has never hindered me in trying to "lay down a feel" , nor has it ever made me play robotically or whatever. I can still perfectly adjust to whatever time feel the bass player has, or piano, etc...

In short, really...I don't agree with the original post at all. "Dependent on an external pulse"..."Missing the finer details of my playing"... In my opinion, whenever you try to go 'outside' and just rip, and you find yourself not synching with the provided background, you need to spend more time with a steady pulse...not less...
 
I think about 90%, if not more, of my practice time is along with some kind of time checking thing in the background, whether it'd be a click, some play-along, a tune I'm playing with, a loop or an app like iReal. I'll admit the click is used the least and everything else the most, because I simply find it beneficial to hear how everything I play/practice relates to form and chord changes.

For my part, I see literally zero downsides in doing that, on the contrary...when I get to the point where I can "cut loose" in a relaxed fashion within and around the tempo provided to me in the background in practice, I know my time will be okay when I do it for real with actual people. It has never hindered me in trying to "lay down a feel" , nor has it ever made me play robotically or whatever. I can still perfectly adjust to whatever time feel the bass player has, or piano, etc...

In short, really...I don't agree with the original post at all. "Dependent on an external pulse"..."Missing the finer details of my playing"... In my opinion, whenever you try to go 'outside' and just rip, and you find yourself not synching with the provided background, you need to spend more time with a steady pulse...not less...
That’s fine…for you. But not everyone is like that.
 
I think about 90%, if not more, of my practice time is along with some kind of time checking thing in the background, whether it'd be a click, some play-along, a tune I'm playing with, a loop or an app like iReal. I'll admit the click is used the least and everything else the most, because I simply find it beneficial to hear how everything I play/practice relates to form and chord changes.

For my part, I see literally zero downsides in doing that, on the contrary...when I get to the point where I can "cut loose" in a relaxed fashion within and around the tempo provided to me in the background in practice, I know my time will be okay when I do it for real with actual people. It has never hindered me in trying to "lay down a feel" , nor has it ever made me play robotically or whatever. I can still perfectly adjust to whatever time feel the bass player has, or piano, etc...

In short, really...I don't agree with the original post at all. "Dependent on an external pulse"..."Missing the finer details of my playing"... In my opinion, whenever you try to go 'outside' and just rip, and you find yourself not synching with the provided background, you need to spend more time with a steady pulse...not less...

i do agree with this...there is "being human"/letting it breathe/feeling the groove

and then there is out of time/control

I tend to play with more people in the latter...and many of them are very vocal about a click "harshing their groove", but are all over tempo when it comes down to it....
 
I'm not sure playing to a click necessarily means you're following it. For example if you're playing with a bass player, you're not each doing your own thing, you're locked in. That's how I treat the metro. As another entity with whom I'm keeping perfect time.

I think the most important thing is having the ability to play with a click, whether you always use one or never do. <-- This theory being akin to the old saying about knowing the rules before you can break them.
 
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“Dave Tough specialised in what he called organised time which was not metronomic.

His philosophy was that human beings aren’t metronomes and drummers shouldn’t be either.

If he felt the music demanded it he would lift the tempo a couple of bpm in a particular section and bring it back down again when the tune moved on. He evidently had a way of announcing his intentions to the rest of the band by playing five crotchets on the snare drum. He’d also do this if he felt they weren’t particularly on top of the piece.”


"I believe that most of the enthusiasm and the fire that I had going was given to me by Davey Tough. Because we used to sit in the bus and discuss rhythms and music—and little excursions in rhythm. which were the early motivation of what they now call the free, avant garde music, you know. We would discuss all those little possibilities. He used to call me Snuggy—that was another nickname; he would suggest what level of the instrument I should play.

If somebody was playing up high, I should play down real low and walk up to him, or vice versa—little ideas of the area of the bass to play when the huge ensemble would come in. These were things that maybe would have occurred to me, but really didn’t until he brought it out. He was a great teacher. Like, he couldn’t play a two–bar dishonest phrase; he wasn’t a soloist, but he had such a magnificent feeling for momentum—and it was for real. Yeah, he was the ideal big band drummer. We’d sit by the hour and just discuss all different kinds of non–metronomical patterns.

He didn’t believe in that “tick–tock–tick–tock–tick–tock”; he felt that the human should never get into that. At that time, the majority of bandleaders were labouring under the belief that if I beat it off “one–two–three–four”, that’s where it should end. And that’s really not the human sound; as I’m talking to you, I can feel a . .a word . . . let’s see if I can find a gesticulation of sound—it’s high, it’s low, then it slows down a bit, perhaps, then a little faster. That has a way of getting into your ear, rather than if I picked one level and just talked on that—that gets terribly monotonous.

Which is what Davey used to say to me: if you just keep that “ding–ding–ding–ding” going all the time, after a while it loses somewhere along the line. A great many bandleaders, a great many drummers and bass players, to this day, feel that . . . the thing is losing time, or it’s gaining time—oh, we just dropped there—not even thinking that the person who is doing it is a human being, and he may feel at that moment that the thing should just get a little lazy and drop down a bit, or it should get more excited and go a little bit. I believe in that.

That’s one thing that Davey drummed into me—I didn’t mean that as a pun—

non–metronomical time."

 
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