Neil Peart Plays Buddy Rich

Thaard

Platinum Member
Not the best from that concert imo, but still good. Hope he has improved his slouching, or he'll have problems with his back.
 

ChrisCirino

Senior Member
I'm a huge Neil fan but you hit it right on the head, the man can't swing. You would think after lessons with Freddy Gruber and Peter Erskine he'd have gotten a little better. Neil, For the sake of your fans please give up your big band quest.
 

nickg

Silver Member
how ironic that the one putting the whole "Swingin' With Buddy" thing is the only one that CAN'T swing.

what's next....asking Charlie Watts to do a "Speedin' With Lamb of God" tribute???
 

JPW

Silver Member
It's a tribute, why can't you make a tribute to someone without being an exact clone of someone? I understand he doesn't quite swing the way the 'true' swingers do but again, it's a tribute.
 
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michael drums

Guest
Wow,


A lot of haters out there.

How 'bout this...


You're not used to seeing NP playing big band?

Ever think of that? You'd have the same reaction to Peter Erskine trying to play prog. Or Elvin Jones trying to play hard rock.

Not that they can't, but it's not the genre we're used to seeing that particular drummer playing.

Can't you just appreciate what he does, and the fact that why he does it is because it's a tribute to his hero, Buddy Rich.

And I'm sorry but the video that Monica linked has a fantastic solo in it. Just because he plays "matched" grip throughout this performance, doesn't mean he doesn't "swing".

Don't be so shallow, y'all!
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Brian Blade swings like Hell and plays with matched grip. I don't think matched grip is the issue.
 

TTNW

Pioneer Member
No one does what he does better than he does, but the poor bastard can't swing to save his life. That's cool, not everybody can.
I'm a huge Neil fan but you hit it right on the head, the man can't swing.
Guys, I'm curious because swing and jazz feels are the weakest areas of my drumming. Excluding his solo where he "Buddy Rich"s all around the kit, in the beginning of the video, is it his ride beat that lacks any swing? I thought he had a pretty decent triplety swing ride beat going on. Or is it his overall sound, bass, snare and ride beat that is not swinging.

I'm not particularly pro or con on Neil Peart. I like Rush and I've always enjoyed his drumming so I want to skip the Peart argument.

What is it specifically that is lacking in his swing? Defining swing is a little bit to me now, like the words groove and pocket used to be to me 20 years ago. You get it when you get it but with swing, I don't get it yet.
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Swing is drive. At least, in this case it is. Behind a big band you've got to be pushing forward. If you watch Bisonette (and I'm not a particular fan of him, either) you can see that he's really driving that band forward. Watch the Peart video and you see he's playing the right notes, but the feel is wrong. He's playing on the beat and not an inch ahead or behind. Essentially it's the interaction of the ride with the rest of the band. Look for some good Mel Lewis videos and you'll see some real swing. Watch some of Buddy's stuff (not a particular fan again) and you'll see some real swing. Sooner or later, you'll feel the difference.
 

ChrisCirino

Senior Member
Neil is arguable the most influential drummer of the last 25 years and a man I greatly admire for his exploits both on and off the kit. This does not however blind me to the fact that he does not do everything well. I don't think anyone is being "shallow" in voicing their fairly humorous opinions of Neil's mediocre playing at this show. I'm a metal guy and I couldn't play with a big band if I tried. That being said, he's been trying to become a big band drummer for the last 20 years. From the original Buddy concerts in the early 90's (the video that's posted), the Burnin' for Buddy sessions, his terrible Test for Echo Freddy Gruber makeover, his longtime Two O'Clock Jump solo and the latest BRM show in 2008 (I personally liked the BB version of YYZ from this show). I know there are Peart zealots out there who think the man is infallible. One need only to count the Neil clones on youtube laboring away in their basements with replica kits to post another obscure note for note track from Presto. Neil lovers and haters alike should acknowledge, no matter how hard he tries, no matter what his intention, this just isn't his thing. Lets just hope that no one ever posts a video of Elvin playing "Cygnus X-1" or Erskine playing "By-Tor and the Snow Dog".
 
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bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I have had this argument before with some drummers about Neil's big band playing. I have the BMG Buddy Rich Tribute CD in my collection.
Although I can tell that Neil is out of his element when playing this form of music. I still enjoyed it! I take it for what it is. A rock drummer playing a different genre! I found it interesting, especially when I listen to the whole album with all of the other drummers on the same CD along with Neil.
Its kind of like watching the British Golf Open and seeing the pros struggle to the point of club throwing! It makes me feel good to know that pro people aren't perfect and I admire them when they push themselves.
 
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drumtechdad

Gold Member
Wow, A lot of haters out there.
This is just silly. Hate? Perhaps you're one of those who mistakes disagreement for intolerance. I prefaced my remarks with "No one does what he does better."

Pretty hateful!

You're not used to seeing NP playing big band?

Ever think of that? You'd have the same reaction to Peter Erskine trying to play prog. Or Elvin Jones trying to play hard rock.
And we can predict the reaction of others! Cool! Gonna try for the trifecta?

Oh, and I hate to break this to you, but Erskine was drummer for Weather Report for several years, and "prog" is just another name for "fusion" but with less soloing.

Not that they can't, but it's not the genre we're used to seeing that particular drummer playing.

Can't you just appreciate what he does, and the fact that why he does it is because it's a tribute to his hero, Buddy Rich.
Well, Bissonette has recorded and toured with dozens of top rock acts, yet he nails the sh!t out of the BR tribute. You see, he can actually do it.

And I'm sorry but the video that Monica linked has a fantastic solo in it. Just because he plays "matched" grip throughout this performance, doesn't mean he doesn't "swing".
And using trad grip and having the ability to swing are related how, exactly? Trifecta!

Don't be so shallow, y'all!
Good advice. I'll try not to let my appreciation for drummers who actually can transcend their specialty color my appreciation for those who, alas, can't. Never occurred to me.

Neil is arguable the most influential drummer of the last 25 years and a man I greatly admire for his exploits both on and off the kit. This does not however blind me to the fact that he does not do everything well.
Exactly. Very few drummers do everything well (Bissonette may be an exception), including myself. If I tried Neil's licks I would crash and burn. As a result, you won't find me making the attempt while cameras are rolling.
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Oh, and I hate to break this to you, but Erskine was drummer for Weather Report for several years, and "prog" is just another name for "fusion" but with less soloing.
Man. That's a great line. Had me absolutely and utterly cracking up with that one!
 

Steamer

Platinum Member
Swing is drive. At least, in this case it is. Behind a big band you've got to be pushing forward. If you watch Bisonette (and I'm not a particular fan of him, either) you can see that he's really driving that band forward. Watch the Peart video and you see he's playing the right notes, but the feel is wrong. He's playing on the beat and not an inch ahead or behind. Essentially it's the interaction of the ride with the rest of the band. Look for some good Mel Lewis videos and you'll see some real swing. Watch some of Buddy's stuff (not a particular fan again) and you'll see some real swing. Sooner or later, you'll feel the difference.

There's more to it than that and here's the problem I clearly picked up on listening to his ensemble playing in the clip. Everything he plays is heavily dictated on the heavily placed down beats to my ear making his swing beat sound heavy and static in motion {or lack of forward motion in this case}. There's no sense of real syncopation or a light bounce, buoyancy or natural flow with his swing feel giving the music the much needed lift in this type of musical setting.

The chops are great but the heavy emphasis and placement of the beats doesn't give the music the "floating forward feeling" a seasoned jazz player knows how to achieve putting the right degree of emphasis on the weaker parts of the various resolution points in a bar of beats which is one of a few important elements missed in his interpretation of how to play swing in a true fashion especially in a traditional Big Band situation like this.

Great chops but missing the musical interpretation of achieving that certain swing feel and feeling that doesn't meet up right for the music at hand in this case..........
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
There's more to it than that and here's the problem I clearly picked up on listening to his ensemble playing in the clip. Everything he plays is heavily dictated on the heavily placed down beats to my ear making his swing beat sound heavy and static in motion {or lack of forward motion in this case}. There's no sense of real syncopation or a light bounce, buoyancy or natural flow with his swing feel giving the music the much needed lift in this type of musical setting.

The chops are great but the heavy emphasis and placement of the beats doesn't give the music the "floating forward feeling" a seasoned jazz player knows how to achieve putting the right degree of emphasis on the weaker parts of the various resolution points in a bar of beats which is one of a few important elements missed in his interpretation of how to play swing in a true fashion especially in a traditional Big Band situation like this.

Great chops but missing the musical interpretation of achieving that certain swing feel and feeling that doesn't meet up right for the music at hand in this case..........
That's what I was trying to say, but that's a much better way of putting it.

I thought of a good analogy earlier. Imagine you have the best story in the World being read by somebody with absolutely no change in diction or dramatic word emphasis. Now imagine a mediocre book being read by somebody with real passion and flair. Which would you enjoy more? In my case, probably the latter.

In this instance, Peart represents the former.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
QUOTE: Great chops but missing the musical interpretation of achieving that certain swing feel and feeling that doesn't meet up right for the music at hand in this case..........
__________________

Just from too many years of playing only rock.
 

mrmike

Silver Member
A bit heavy handed when playing to the music. Great solo in the Peart fashion. I always get the feeling there is not much improv when I watch Peart but I would imagine some parts are improvised. Nice to see him play a small kit even if he didn't scrap the double pedal.
 

Garvin

Pioneer Member
Ha! Definitely NOT swinging... This video reminds me of that one someone posted of the robot that was programmed to play Giant Steps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7VJMGy3P4w&feature=PlayList&p=310D31C8AE1CB077&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3... This guy is placing notes like a machine, not swinging... This is one of the most efficient solos I've seen, as though it were ordered by a mid-twentieth century dictator.

I have nothing against him personally, but I think everyone is right on the money about his inability to swing. Some folks just can't.
 

mrmike

Silver Member
This just re-affirms just how great someone like Bill Bruford is. One of the few to make the cross over from rock to jazz convincingly.
 
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