I'm just about convinced

Old Dog new Cans

Old Dog new Cans

Senior Member
That I will never buy a truly High End snare or kit for that matter.


Whether or not you WANT to believe this man, I believe that he's definitely showing some truth here. I honestly believe that 1/2 of what we hear when we buy these drums has everything to do with the fact we are spending hundreds of dollars on these drums and we WANT them to sound like they're worth it.

I'm NOT saying all drums sound the same. There are some defining factors. A horribly cheap built drum, is just that. But distinguishing between well-built drums whether it's a $150 PDP or $600 Ludwig. . .at least in this video, seems MUCH MORE difficult.

The ONLY snare drums I will ever spend upwards of $300 to $400 or more, will be snares I build. I'm just not going to buy into the hype, as he calls it.


And for those of you that do NOT wish to watch the vid, be aware, he has a DW snare, Tama, maple, birch, stave shells, aluminum, chrome plated steel, etc. All in all, I think there are 8 different snares sitting there????? My point is, he's covered many bases as far as types of snares. NO ludwigs that I remember. Send him one of yours if you want him to include it in a video. I'm sure he'd do it.
 
Push pull stroke said:
I mostly agree. When I buy a snare, though, I’m not always looking for a “good” sound. Sometimes I just want a very specific sound.
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Looking for a specific sound. Couldn't have said it better. Quality hardware too - smooth throw-off lever, etc.
 
Didn't watch. I'm very wary of the "a drum is a drum" proponents. Why weren't any Ludwigs included in his video? I can see how some of the Supras (such as the Black Beauty and Copperphonic) might have ben deliberately excluded, but how about a basic Classic Maple with triple-flanged hoops and cheap Ludwig wires? Doesn't seem like a very fair demonstration if you don't at least include an aluminum Supra, the go-to snare for so many drummers over the decades.

I agree that snares can sound pretty similar to each other, and that some have less or more appeal (always subjective of course) which isn't always tied to price. There are some wonderful (IMO) cheap snares, and some useless (again IMO) expensive snares. I also don't believe that a $1500 snare necessarily sounds twice as good as a $750 snare, or four times better than a $375 snare. Snares can be quite different, and that's the key. There are just too many factors that shape the sound of a snare: size and exact diameter, wood type, thickness of shell, layup method, type of glue used, wrap and application, edges, snare bed contour, lug type and quantity, hoop type and material, head types, and wires material and number of strands. Beyond that, there are player aspects to a snare's sound such as damping, tuning, weight of sticks, the player's velocity, where on the head that the stick lands, and how much (if any) rim is played.

I know of one builder who claimed for years that edges don't really matter. Of course when they started offering a different-edged drum, suddenly it was all about the edges after all. I also remember a drumhead company's founder (let's just call him R.B.) who claimed that the sound of a drum comes from the head. Well, I guess everyone will say whatever they want if it might help sell more product.

Sorry, but the sound of a drum - a snare in particular - is governed by several factors. It's hard to say that any one of them is significantly more important than another, but there are easily as many differences as there are similarities. Again, not always tied to price, but the differences are there.

FYI, I have a lot of snares, and I would say the majority fall in the $500-900 range. I have several that are more and less expensive, but I never use them. :)

Bermuda
 
I once purchased an Acrolite before inspecting it carefully before leaving the store with it. The butt plate was put on crooked and the shell was out of round. Took it back.

I purchased a Black Beauty for $800, thinking it would be pristine for that price. Ha!
The nickel finish was flawed in spots and the top bearing edge wasn't flat!
There was one lug that was always tensioned looser than the rest, right where the bearing edge sloped upwards!
Took it right back!

My point is: The quality of manufacture can be very hit-or-miss regardless of price!
Take that batter head off and inspect!
Can you tune that sucker before you buy it?
I sincerely wish that Ludwig employ better quality control!
It's not just about that P-85!
 
Sound can obviously be manipulated with heads, wires, tuning. I'm curious what "specific" sound someone would be after?

Bermuda--I'm not sure why he didn't include any Ludwigs, except that he probably doesn't own any. He's actually gone out and bought drums to prove points in his videos. I will say, he's not impressed or convinced with DW's ideas. He does however, have different thicknesses up to 1" or more? He shows different wood types, 10 lug, 8 lug, different hoop types--including wood hoops.


He talks about bearing edges in the video as well. . .they don't seem to be NEARLY as important.

Yes snares can be different, but how much of it is ACTUALLY dependent on those, "too many factors"?? And you can't include human factors in my mind. This is ONLY about the make/build. Keeping as many factors the same as he can. He tunes them all nearly the same.

THEY ALL SOUND THE SAME. ?‍♂️

He directs a lot of his opinions at "the hype" that we deal with when trying to buy drums.

I mean, heck, he just built a trash can bass drum. Set it next to 2 other bass drums. It sounded, like a bass drum! NOT like a trash can with drum heads on it.

Don't be convinced by everything you've heard in the past. Especially if you haven't watched the video.
 
I can tell you this: I've been playing Pearl forever and have pretty much owned a specimen of all their products, save their custom-ordered Masterworks stuff. Of everything I've played by Pearl, I like my current Session Studio Select kit most, and, by strict definition, it's a midrange line in the Pearl catalog. I could spend more on a kit, but I have no need to in this case. I've got the sound I want and don't need to "upgrade," which is a pretty meaningless concept anyway when inspected beneath the lenses of logic.

A drum might not always just be a drum, but a drum sounds no better than its owner thinks it does. I mean, really, who's ever going to say, "Your drums don't sound good enough; get a new setup"? Unless your equipment is held together by giftwrap tape, you'll never hear that from anyone, at least not from anyone with the slightest credibility.

I think you're mostly right, Mr. Cans. The drum market is chiefly a load of hype.
 
Love the way he discounts bearing edge difference, then right at the end of the video, tells us that a particular snare is more crisp because he put the resonant side bearing edge he favoured on that drum.

Anyhow, he's correct and incorrect in equal measure. Heads, tuning, stick choice, playing style, room, all have a potentially greater affect on the resulting sound compared to any physical attribute outside of size, but yet again, here's someone trying to ascertain contribution value of one or two features in isolation, whereas the character of a drum (or lack of) is a combination of many factors, and the best instruments augment those features towards a defined goal.

As he built all the examples here, I wonder if he ever questioned if he has a knack of building consistently generic sounding drums?
 
It's important to keep in perspective that when you pay X number of dollars on a drum, you're not just buying the sound it makes.

Close tolerances and higher quality materials lead to drums that are easier to tune faster, respond and react more dynamically, and have a longer lifespan. That also tends to lead to higher prices.

I'm sure most of us could make even one of those $40 Amazon snare drums sound like a snare drum. Maybe even a good snare drum. But that's not really the whole story, is it? How long did it take to tune it? Did you need to replace anything? How long will that drum last from just routine use?
 
I'll also add this point specifically in relation to snare drums: Stewart Copeland recorded every Police album (1978-1986) with the same snare drum -- not several shells of the same model but the same exact drum. He could have used two hundred different drums. He chose only one. The idea that we need a massive arsenal of equipment to make music is yet another absurd concept. Such thinking benefits manufacturers much more than it does drummers.
 
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I've rebuilt some pretty crappy drums and have a knack for getting them to sound pretty damn good. CB700 and PDP 805, and some unknown probably Japanese maybe yugoslavian drums. I guess I'm in the category that believes you can make pretty much any shell sound good with proper heads, wires, etc. Not saying the cheap drums will last as long as those of better manufacture, but they can sound good. Two concepts I adhere to:
1) Musical instruments will sound only as good as the person playing them
2) The audience doesn't know the difference between a CB700 steel shell snare drum and a Craviotto stave shell snare drum.
 
Winston_Wolf said:
It's important to keep in perspective that when you pay X number of dollars on a drum, you're not just buying the sound it makes.

Close tolerances and higher quality materials lead to drums that are easier to tune faster, respond and react more dynamically, and have a longer lifespan. That also tends to lead to higher prices.

I'm sure most of us could make even one of those $40 Amazon snare drums sound like a snare drum. Maybe even a good snare drum. But that's not really the whole story, is it? How long did it take to tune it? Did you need to replace anything? How long will that drum last from just routine use?
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Those are all valid concerns. You have to buy decent stuff. The eternal question: At what stage do you reach a point of diminishing returns with luxury upgrades? Only the buyer can make that call. It's your equipment, no one else's.
 
johnwesley said:
1) Musical instruments will sound only as good as the person playing them
2) The audience doesn't know the difference between a CB700 steel shell snare drum and a Craviotto stave shell snare drum.
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Both claims are indisputable. It's the second one that ninety-nine percent of all drummers refuse to accept. The audience couldn't find a snare drum on a pile of motorcycle parts.
 
I buy off of feel and not as much sound. If it feels good I can make it sound how I want. That said, I've never spent more then $700 on a set of drums and never spent more then $250 on a snare drum and never spent more then $300 on a cymbal. Probably never would honestly. For $500-$700 I can get a quality kit from Tama, Pearl, Yamaha, Ludwig, Gretsch, etc that will look, sound, and feel great, record well, and not make me a nervous wreck to transport and gig (especially loading out grimey Daytona Beach alley's at 2am). You can get used vintage A's for less then $10 an inch and new A's for not much more. For $200-$300 you can get a maple or birch snare with 2.3mm or diecast hoops that plays like a pro level drum from any major manufacturer.
 
Play a roll on the edge and tell me they all sound the same.

I don't really agree.

Other reasons for having several snares is the they'll be set up for specific things and those various setups may display the differences more.
 
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I've put several pricey ones side by side, tuned with a tunebot and can definitely tell a difference. I've done the same with bargain priced snares. They are all different somehow, some decent, some not so much. The biggest thing I notice is tuning range and quality of hardware. That to me at least at times is well worth the extra cost.
 
I'm afraid to take expensive gear to my gigs anyway. Musicians and audience members break my stuff.
 
Is it coincidence that the best sounding snares I have cost the most? Yes it is buy crap drums..
 
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