How light is too light for hi hat cymbals????

johnwesley

johnwesley

Silver Member
Haven't made up my mind on the Wuhan 16" hats yet and have another option. 14" Zildjians from the 50s. Thing is they are really ;light weight. 625 grams and 630 grams. I'm not a cymbal smasher but those seem really light for anyone other than a light jazz application. Any thoughts on these as opposed to the Wuhans. I'm looking to get a sloshy Ringo sound NOT Bonham trash can lid sound.
 
Hmmm. Prob depends on what you’re going to do with them. If it’s just for your enjoyment at home, the jazz age Zildjians all day every day and twice on Sunday.

My wife disagrees though she’s not referring to cymbals.

Pete

Edit - how many of you thought I was talking about how often to eat ice cream? . , . It was ice cream.
 
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I use two 17” thin crashes for hats and both are pretty light. It works for everything I do, except for the “chick” sound which is only important if I’m playing big band stuff - but I don’t play for $25 a night anymore ?
 
My best guess is that this is the sound you'd get from the vintage Zildjians. They'll be a level or two louder as this video is 13s and they're flange hats.

Edit - this type and weight of hat was made for small venues and brushwork, what they're best at.

 
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And these are a dead match for my own most favored pair. Mine are plenty loud.

As for the question, how light is too light? Tough question. I've heard a pair of 12s that were around 360g each. They were early 30s K. Zildjians. In my brain, they were the best sounding HHs I've ever heard. I wouldn't lay out the kind of money those would command and I don't play in a seedy jazz club with 8 tables like those were made for.

Balance what you want them for and how much you want to spend. No biggie if it isn't vintage Zildjians.

Re: the Wuhans, I've heard some and banged on some but never owned or played them. My limited experience with them is that they are the gold standard of inconsistency. So let the buyer beware.

Pete

 
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I once bought a pair of 'vintage' Zildjian hats on eBay. They weighed 715g top and 755g bottom. (14 inch)
I personally found them too light to function as HiHats. There was hardly any definition at all. I sold them within a month. YMMV
 
Whenever I’ve experimented with hats seems the bottom hat needs some weight to it- thin top sounds great. But I’ve wondered if a crimped light bottom might work?
 
In my experience I found that airlock is a myth. I operated under the assumption for many years that my hats got airlocked when they lose chick volume. If air lock was really a thing, the 3 holes I drilled in my bottom HH cymbals would have absolutely fixed it. Which it didn't. At all. That's proof enough for me right there.

So what causes it? I am of the mind that the loss of chick volume which is attributed to air lock is really....a perfect alignment of the 2 HH cymbal edges. The crimped hats really should fix that because perfect alignment isn't possible with 1 crimped cymbal. Imperfect alignment (using HH's w/ smooth edges) sounds normal. Perfect edge alignment is the cause of this loss of chick volume phenomenon AFAICT from my experiences. It's not airlock.
 
Peedy said:
My limited experience with them is that they are the gold standard of inconsistency.
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This. This is why I buy Paiste. I can get 5 crash cymbals from 5 different places at 5 different times and they all will sound the same. There's a lot to be said for Swiss manufacturing precision.
 
johnwesley said:
Haven't made up my mind on the Wuhan 16" hats yet and have another option. 14" Zildjians from the 50s. Thing is they are really ;light weight. 625 grams and 630 grams. I'm not a cymbal smasher but those seem really light for anyone other than a light jazz application. Any thoughts on these as opposed to the Wuhans. I'm looking to get a sloshy Ringo sound NOT Bonham trash can lid sound.
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Simple,

I would skip the 2 options and find another set instead. One with a smaller size then 16" and with better weight then 625 and 630.

:)
 
arpic75 said:
This. This is why I buy Paiste. I can get 5 crash cymbals from 5 different places at 5 different times and they all will sound the same. There's a lot to be said for Swiss manufacturing precision.
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Funny thing is, that’s exactly why so many people (me included) don’t care for Paiste. I’m saying that some Wuhans sound fine, some meh, and some horrible (imo). Whereas I’ve found that Zildjians tend to sometimes sound DIFFERENT. I value that variation. I don’t WANT to sound like everybody else. I’m a unique individual and I feel good thaT my cymbals are too.

Pete
 
Peedy said:
Funny thing is, that’s exactly why so many people (me included) don’t care for Paiste. I’m saying that some Wuhans sound fine, some meh, and some horrible (imo). Whereas I’ve found that Zildjians tend to sometimes sound DIFFERENT. I value that variation. I don’t WANT to sound like everybody else. I’m a unique individual and I feel good thaT my cymbals are too.

Pete
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Which I fully understand, however, with that variation comes the inability to replace that one cymbal that gets broken/stolen/whatever that had a sound you loved. There are pros and cons to both. I have a preference for replaceable consistency.
 
C.M. Jones said:
I'd say anything as feathery as 625 grams doesn't qualify as a "modern" hi-hat.
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Ironically it’s those light cymbals that are so financially valued by vintage players or drummers who are looking for a sound that you simply can’t find in any new cymbal.

As for the weight, I’ve not had any problems being heard in a room of 50 people playing 14s as thin as a 445g/500g.

Anyway, the real value to a modern drummer of the OPs Zildjian set mentioned would be in a recording studio where any issues with being heard are practically meaningless.

Pete
 
Peedy said:
Ironically it’s those light cymbals that are so financially valued by vintage players or drummers who are looking for a sound that you simply can’t find in any new cymbal.

As for the weight, I’ve not had any problems being heard in a room of 50 people playing 14s as thin as a 445g/500g.

Anyway, the real value to a modern drummer of the OPs Zildjian set mentioned would be in a recording studio where any issues with being heard are practically meaningless.

Pete
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I'm not claiming that hats in the 600 range can't be heard; I'm just pointing out that contemporary manufacturing, for the most part, isn't producing cymbals in that weight class that bear the label "hi-hat." Modern hi-hats are in an entirely different frequency range from crashes, whereas many years ago, hi-hats were informally created by paring crash cymbals. The characteristics that determine hi-hat affiliation have changed a deal great deal.
 
EhhSoCheap said:
Hmmm Mr Jones I’m dubious
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About what? Both statements are true. The trend in hi-hats for a very long time now has been to differentiate them from crashes both in design and weight, a component of which has been to combine a lighter top with a heavier bottom. In addition, there was definitely an era in which hi-hats consisted of random cymbals, usually crashes, paired at the buyer's discretion. What dimension of those claims, grounded in fact, promotes doubt?
 
C.M. Jones said:
About what? Both statements are true. The trend in hi-hats for a very long time now has been to differentiate them from crashes both in design and weight, a component of which has been to combine a lighter top with a heavier bottom. In addition, there was definitely an era in which hi-hats consisted of random cymbals, usually crashes, paired at the buyer's discretion. What dimension of those claims, grounded in fact, promotes doubt?
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> many years ago, hi-hats were informally created by paring crash cymbals.

This seems inconsistent with the sock cymbals/low-boy precursor to modern hi hats.

> there was definitely an era in which hi-hats consisted of random cymbals, usually crashes, paired at the buyer's discretion

Ok, what era are you referring to?
 
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