Help needed: drum room setup

L

llewis13

Member
Hi everyone,

I've got a small studio in a walkup office building that I rent which is roughly 16'x7' which I primarily use for practice and storage (my deal with the landlord is I'm free to make as much noise as I want nights & weekends). I have a Vox AC10 and a Roland KC-350 in there and I regularly host jams with 3 or 4 friends, but I don't have a proper PA and any time I've tried putting a PA in the room, the vocals feedback like crazy.

The current state of my studio is a bit of a mess. I've got my studio drum kit on one end facing the room, another kit stacked on the side, and a 3rd smaller kit which I gig with most of the time. So I'm thinking to put up some shelves to get the extra drums off the floor and free up some space. But I also want to get a PA so I can host jams with vocals. I'm just not sure where the best location would be for everything. My studio kit isn't moving, but the amps and other things can all be moved around to make it sound optimal and hopefully limit feedback.

Would appreciate suggestions for where to place everything. I don't want to put up shelves only to realize they're not optimally placed. Attached is a rough layout (not exactly to scale).

Thanks in advance!
 

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For a space this small, maybe the best move is to get a headphone amp with enough inputs and outputs for everyone. Not only will this keep feedback down, but in a space that small I would imagine it's probably pretty loud. Headphones and in-ears will help with the overall sound levels.
 
Use moving blankets on a couple of the walls, that will eliminate all feedback.
Get a 15 inch powered speaker and one mic for the singer, later you can get the powered 18 sub and add a matching pair so basically two subs and two tops, add a Mackie onyx 24 channel mixer. The onyx allows you to record 24 tracks individually into a DAW. If you need more than that you need to rent it or you are making enough $$ as a band... anyway the 15 inch powered speaker will be good to get you started. You can go from around $300 all the way to $ around $800, I recommend you don't cheap out here as there is a significant difference in quality. Also don't discount looking at the used market.
 
doggyd69b said:
Use moving blankets on a couple of the walls, that will eliminate all feedback.
Get a 15 inch powered speaker and one mic for the singer, later you can get the powered 18 sub and add a matching pair so basically two subs and two tops, add a Mackie onyx 24 channel mixer. The onyx allows you to record 24 tracks individually into a DAW. If you need more than that you need to rent it or you are making enough $$ as a band... anyway the 15 inch powered speaker will be good to get you started. You can go from around $300 all the way to $ around $800, I recommend you don't cheap out here as there is a significant difference in quality. Also don't discount looking at the used market.
Click to expand...
Did I mention the room is 110 sq ft? I just need something loud enough to get above the drums. I literally don't have space for 2 speakers and 2 subs, not to mention that seems overkill for my little room. This isn't a speaker I plan to take to gigs or for it to ever leave the studio.
 
alparrott said:
For a space this small, maybe the best move is to get a headphone amp with enough inputs and outputs for everyone. Not only will this keep feedback down, but in a space that small I would imagine it's probably pretty loud. Headphones and in-ears will help with the overall sound levels.
Click to expand...
How would you mic the drums in a situation like that? A kick mic and an overhead or a wurst mic? I don't have any mics on the studio kit because I really just use it for practice and have fun jamming with friends.
 
llewis13 said:
How would you mic the drums in a situation like that? A kick mic and an overhead or a wurst mic? I don't have any mics on the studio kit because I really just use it for practice and have fun jamming with friends.
Click to expand...
That would probably be plenty, or you could mic the whole thing if you wanted. Most times when I am playing in-ears at smaller venues, I have a single mic in my bass drum that picks up a good bit of the kit.
 
You'll shoot your eye out! Oops, Christmas is over. You'll blow your ears out! Even with moving blankets (which I have and love) a PA system is going to be loud. Consider in-ear monitors. You would have to mic the drums somehow (I am happy with my Shure PGADRUMKIT set that I bought used) and connect that to a mixer, and the other musicians would obviously send their sound to the same mixer. Then you each receive an AUX OUT signal from the mixer to your in-ear monitors. The only sound in the room is from any mic'ed amps and the vocals, and everything goes into each person's in-ears and they can control their personal mix via a phone app. Seems like you are really talking about how to set-up a monitoring system, not a PA system (which would go to an audience), and an IEM system would work well in your small space.
 
I think you need a mixing board. From there. Headphone outs or a QSC 12" powered monitor.
And...it's a small room.....you guys are gonna have to play quiet....to hear each other...it's kind of a really good thing.
 
llewis13 said:
How would you mic the drums in a situation like that? A kick mic and an overhead or a wurst mic? I don't have any mics on the studio kit because I really just use it for practice and have fun jamming with friends.
Click to expand...
I have a space that is very similar. Long and narrow with low ceiling. We all run in ears when we practice which does wonders for feedback and noise level in the room. I have found that the overhead mic alone works best. When I run the kick mic it seems to compete to much with the bass with the monitor mix. In a larger space it wouldn't be an issue. But also, in such a small space, I have found the overhead mic works just fine. Both for monitoring purposes and for recording. We will sometimes hit record while jamming on a new tune to see how its really sounding and the overhead gets the job done nicely. Also, I have treated the walls with cut up squares of a 2 inch thick mattress topper I had lying around. Made a huge difference. Doesn't look very good and I hope to eventually treat the room with more aesthetically pleasing material. I would definitely recommend treating the walls in some way, though.
 
+1 for packing blankets and in-ear monitors. If you use packing blankets, be sure to get ones that are filled with cotton (recycled denim, usually), not synthetics. The cotton filled blankets will be much heavier and they'll do a lot to improve the sound in the room. Synthetic filled blankets won't do much of anything. In a room that small, any amps that can compete with drums are going to kill your ears. Unless, of course, you're an extremely loud band, in which case we should be talking more about hearing protection.
 
Sorry if this was covered, I didn't read most of the responses.

Where are the pa speakers? In having to deal with small rooms and crammed spaces over the years I have found that the pa speakers feedback the most when they are level with the mics and facing them. If you use speaker stands maybe try setting them in the floor next to the amps or maybe on top of the amps or on milkcrates next to the amps. If this doesn't work you could try placing the speakers in the corners of the room but facing the corner. The sound may mud up a bit but you should still hear it and it should cut down on mic pick up.
 
As much as I love playing through a big ol’ PA system, I’ll have to say everyone wearing IEM’s is gonna be your best bet. I’d go with something like the Yamaha MGXU 16 channel. I had this board and loved it. If I remember correctly, there are 3-4 Aux channels so just about everyone can have their own mix.

Make everyone buy their own in-ears. You can get CCA 6-driver IEM’s on Amazon for about $50. You could close-mic all of your drums, but I wouldn’t worry about miking cymbals. If you mic your kit and run it through IEM’s, you won’t feel like you’ll have to slam your kit to hear it over over-cranked guitar amps. You vocalist will save his voice as well. With IEM’s and a personal mix, there is no volume competition.

If you want to get REALLY fancy, get the QSC Touchmix. Then, everyone can control their IEM mix from their own tablet or phone.

All of this may sound expensive, but you can always save by buying used gear. Most importantly, you’ll save your hearing! I wish I could have done something like this when I was younger.
 
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*I've played gigs with no one mic'ed except the singer.*
Suggesting the complexity of IEMs including mic'ing every kit piece and other instruments seems crazy to me.
Get a mini PA (Bose or similar), two small speakers on stands, pointing at the musicians. Singer facing the band, behind or level with the PA.
Job done!
 
I'd agree but with the caveat being if you're attempting vocal harmonies then you might want the IEs for the singers. If it's convenient.
Our board is po-dunk. 1 mon send.
 
PorkPieGuy said:
As much as I love playing through a big ol’ PA system, I’ll have to say everyone wearing IEM’s is gonna be your best bet. I’d go with something like the Yamaha MGXU 16 channel. I had this board and loved it. If I remember correctly, there are 3-4 Aux channels so just about everyone can have their own mix.

Make everyone buy their own in-ears. You can get CCA 6-driver IEM’s on Amazon for about $50. You could close-mic all of your drums, but I wouldn’t worry about miking cymbals. If you mic your kit and run it through IEM’s, you won’t feel like you’ll have to slam your kit to hear it over over-cranked guitar amps. You vocalist will save his voice as well. With IEM’s and a personal mix, there is no volume competition.

If you want to get REALLY fancy, get the QSC Touchmix. Then, everyone can control their IEM mix from their own tablet or phone.

All of this may sound expensive, but you can always save by buying used gear. Most importantly, you’ll save your hearing! I wish I could have done something like this when I was younger.
Click to expand...
Someone locally is actually selling used MGXU16.

If forgoing the PA and just putting together a monitoring system -
would just getting a single room mic for all the instruments and then have the vocals on a separate channel make any sense? Is that too simple as far as inputs go?
 
Why mic the instruments? Just vocal mics as needed. The biggest issue with most bands is volume. You want to hear the vocals, so the last thing you want to do is amplify the instruments beyond guitar amps and acoustic drums.
 
llewis13 said:
Someone locally is actually selling used MGXU16.

If forgoing the PA and just putting together a monitoring system -
would just getting a single room mic for all the instruments and then have the vocals on a separate channel make any sense? Is that too simple as far as inputs go?
Click to expand...

You can make it as simple as you want. There are no rules. 🙂
 
llewis13 said:
Did I mention the room is 110 sq ft? I just need something loud enough to get above the drums. I literally don't have space for 2 speakers and 2 subs, not to mention that seems overkill for my little room. This isn't a speaker I plan to take to gigs or for it to ever leave the studio.
Click to expand...
a 15 inch speaker or even a 12 inch will be loud enough to get above the drums and not take a lot of space.
 
BGDurham said:
You'll shoot your eye out! Oops, Christmas is over. You'll blow your ears out! Even with moving blankets (which I have and love) a PA system is going to be loud. Consider in-ear monitors. You would have to mic the drums somehow (I am happy with my Shure PGADRUMKIT set that I bought used) and connect that to a mixer, and the other musicians would obviously send their sound to the same mixer. Then you each receive an AUX OUT signal from the mixer to your in-ear monitors. The only sound in the room is from any mic'ed amps and the vocals, and everything goes into each person's in-ears and they can control their personal mix via a phone app. Seems like you are really talking about how to set-up a monitoring system, not a PA system (which would go to an audience), and an IEM system would work well in your small space.
Click to expand...
You know a PA has a Volume button that can be used to... turn the volume down.. of course when people think a PA they think a large PA.
There are small portable all in one PA systems that would work very well for the OPs situation.

www.sweetwater.com

Fender Audio Passport Venue S2 Portable PA System

600W, 7-channel Portable PA System with 5 Mic/Line Inputs, 2 Instrument/Line Input, 3 Stereo Inputs, Two Speakers, and Bluetooth Compatibility
www.sweetwater.com www.sweetwater.com

www.sweetwater.com

Yamaha STAGEPAS 600BT Portable PA System with Bluetooth

680W Portable PA with Reverb-equipped 10-channel Mixer, Two speakers with 10" LF/1.4" HF drivers, and Built-in Stand Mounts
www.sweetwater.com www.sweetwater.com



I just recommended the 15 inch powered speaker because:
1 it does not take a lot of space
2 you can connect one or two things to it (mic and instrument so like a mini PA)
3 it is loud enough (if needed) to play with an acoustic set.
4 It can grow to be a full fledge system by adding more as your needs become more.
5 It doesn't have to be a 15 inch, a 12 inch can do just as well, but the reason I recommend the 15 is because it handles lower frequencies better and you would be able to tell the difference.
6 you can connect a small mixer and mic everyone and everything to that speaker and keep acceptable volume levels.
 
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