Foam muffle rings redundant on quality kicks?

The replies in this thread are hilarious. Too many damn snobs that obviously don't work enough to understand that muffling is okay. Its not always about super resonant drums that sustain for 10 minutes. Until they get some pro work, they will never understand.

Well, I don't think the OP has indicated his intentions to do "any studio work", and if that's the case, he's hopefully gonna get a lot of it, to be able to justify laying out of pocket $2400 for a kick drum. Most cats in Los Angeles would contact Ross Garfield and the Drum Doctors http://www.drumdoctors.com/blogger.html or a similar cartage, and rent the appropriate kick for the job, if they didn't have one. That's gonna cost "way less" than $2400. And a lot of the time, the producer is gonna pay for equipment rental. Your remark about "drums that sustain for 10 minutes", could that also qualify as a "hilarious". Really....10 minutes of sustain. In my 43 years of drumming, I've never seen/heard a drum sustain for that long. That said, MJ plays a beautiful Yamaha kit (see picture). And he's a big boy. And he's gonna spend his money any way he wants to. And if $2400 spent on a 20" Absolute is gonna make him happy, that's fine. But the way it seems like he wants to set it up, and to "again" answer his question, I don't think spending that kind of cash is necessary. For 1/6 the price, he could get that "generic" thump. I did it for 1/12th the cost. And used a Yamaha shell, to boot.
 

Attachments

  • DSC02424%20(Medium).JPG
    DSC02424%20(Medium).JPG
    88.7 KB · Views: 1,597
Isn't emad just the same thing?

No, the Remo foam rings are a lot more extreme. They have a try holding the foam against the head with some pressure, not just attached to the head
 
You know these:
http://images.static.steveweissmusic.com/products/images/uploads/popup/REM-MF-1008-00.jpg

They muffle the kick enough so you don't need a pillow. By keeping the kick empty, you don't lose volume. At least my empty kick with emad sounds like a cannon. So far so good.

Thing is, these foam rings fit into a plastic tray that makes direct contact with the bearing edges. Basically, it prevents the head from touching the shell. Are these rings actually worth putting on pro kicks? Do they reduce the kick to a generic sound, similar to an entry level kick?

.

I think those work great for getting a good bass drum sound quickly without a lot of fuss.
When I was working in drums shops year and years ago, we put one in every kick on the floor.

However, there are better options now that have come out since those rings were 1st invented.

The Aquarian Super Kick series (I'm partial to the Super Kick II), the Remo P3, and similar heads are capable of getting a good "muffled" sound without impairing the bearing edge, or overly muffling the drum like large pillows can.

I've never been much of a fan of stuffing a bass drum full of pillows.

However, musical context will play into the situation. What one needs for a jazz gig vs a funk gig vs a metal gig could all warrant different muffling techniques.

-----

A funny (true) story about those muffle rings is once someone came into the shop with a piccolo snare drum to trade it, because he hated the sound it made. OK, fine. I turned the drum over, and realized he had installed a muffle ring on not only the top head, but the bottom head of the snare drum as well. Oh my, no wonder he didn't like the sound.

He didn't care for my suggestion for simply remove the rings, and traded the drum in for another drum that wasn't muffled. Go figure!
 
Last edited:
I think those work great for getting a good bass drum sound quickly without a lot of fuss.
Went I was working in drums shops year and years ago, we put one in every kick on the floor.

However, there are better options now that have come out since those rings were 1st invented.

The Aquarian Super Kick series (I'm partial to the Super Kick II), the Remo P3, and similar heads are capable of getting a good "muffled" sound without impairing the bearing edge, or overly muffling the drum like large pillows can.

I've never been much of a fan of stuffing a bass drum full of pillows.

However, musical context will play into the situation. What one needs for a jazz gig vs a funk gig vs a metal gig could all warrant different muffling techniques.

-----

A funny (true) story about those muffle rings is once someone came into the shop with a piccolo snare drum to trade it, because he hated the sound it made. OK, fine. I turned the drum over, and realized he had installed a muffle ring on not only the top head, but the bottom head of the snare drum as well. Oh my, no wonder he didn't like the sound.

He didn't care for my suggestion for simply remove the rings, and traded the drum in for another drum that wasn't muffled. Go figure!
totally agree! Also, I love the snare story! LOL many times!
 
Not in my book. "Dampening" a drum is more like throwing a pillow in it, touching both heads. When you don't get a nice "BOOOOOOM" out of it, you have successfully dampened or muffled or stifled a drum. I can still get a nice full sound out of a drum with an EMAD. Sometimes you need to choke a drum a little, like if you're in a very live room, but mostly you want to preserve as many overtones of the drum as you can, in my opinion and experience.

Perfect reply caddy. I get more than enough true bass from my kick whilst keeping it controlled enough for mic applications. I only use the thin foam ring. Everything else is tuning. I take the ring out and change the reso for one without a port for acoustic work.
 
The replies in this thread are hilarious. Too many damn snobs that obviously don't work enough to understand that muffling is okay. Its not always about super resonant drums that sustain for 10 minutes. Until they get some pro work, they will never understand.

I like your style :)

Harryconway, no reason to get upset. Drums prices are unfortunately absurd in Europe and I think it's not worth the money just to have a smaller kick. I'm asking about these heads because they aren't cheap and I don't want to throw away money.

I'll just stick to the emad for now. Since I got this head, the kick sounds huge with some sustain. It's empty inside. In the past I have used those foam rings on a P3, long time ago, and the kick sounded better with them than without. It's just been too long ago to remember exactly how it was like. The only downside of the emad is that the ring keeps coming off and I had to paste it with tape. This got me thinking of getting back to the old fashioned P3 with evans pillow (which isn't the same as stuffing the drum!). Or replace the reso by a remad, that might do it as well.

Thanks to everyone for contributing.
 
Apart from matters of sheer taste, the answers are not so simple.

Because sometimes a gig or a studio session requires such muffling. Its not at the demand of a crappy soundman either. I have had engineers or artists I'm doing a session for request a more muffled kick that is quick and tame. Fair enough, its his song, its what he wants. Who am I to argue and say my kick sounds better empty?

Too many of us preach open kicks, unmuffled snares and toms. Sometimes the job just doesn't require such techniques.

Much truth here. I will say that I've noticed that more sound guys--both live and in the studio--are open to a more resonant sound these days, but you're doing a job and you're not in charge of tone.

However: many drummers don't realize the difference in requirements for miked vs. unmiked. When you're miked you can expect to be using some muffling, or premuffled heads, a port in the reso, and JAW tuning.

But I see many drummers playing a bass drum set up like this in the live unmiked situation, too. Sounds perfectly fine from the driver's seat, but I bet most of them don't know that their bass drums are nearly inaudible.

For unmiked you definitely need sustain--it's what gets you heard. You hear the sustain at the kit but the audience doesn't--they just hear a louder bass drum.

My setup for unmiked is PS3s front and rear, no port, and nothing in the drum. Reso tuned up above JAW a little, up to where it begins to sustain. Batter tuned a smidge higher.

I would never expect that setup to work well under the mikes, either live or (especially) in the studio. But if you're playing out unmiked, no one will hear your bass drum otherwise.

You know these:
http://images.static.steveweissmusic.com/products/images/uploads/popup/REM-MF-1008-00.jpg

They muffle the kick enough so you don't need a pillow. By keeping the kick empty, you don't lose volume. At least my empty kick with emad sounds like a cannon. So far so good.

Well, no. Muffling = softer. That's why they call it muffling. Doesn't matter if the muffling is a futon in the drum or foam sticking to the head. It will sound different than with a pillow, but it will cut volume all the same.

That's not an issue when miked, obviously.

The point is (as PRF alluded to), different situations call for different approaches to muffling and tuning. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. You can be a purist all you like in the practice room, but when you're on a gig you need to give what your employer wants.

I play unmiked all the time, while the kid plays mostly unmiked, but not always. If we're not sure about whether the drums will be miked we take two resos to the gig, one ported and the other unported, along with an Evans EQ pad and a rolled-up towel for muffling. A little tweaking of the tuning and you have one drum for both sounds.

that makes me look into the old fashioned powerstroke3 with foam muffle.

Just FYI, the PS3 has no foam ring, just a "control" ring of head material around the perimeter.

Finally, after all these years, I still like the sound of felt strips for muffling. They are adjustable in effect and fully removable. Win-win.
 
If sound men ruled the world, they would just have us play on cardboard boxes and attach triggers. It would make their jobs much easier.

Failing that, they can get dummers to stuff furniture into their bass drums and kill all sound, making them sound like a dead cardboard box, which the sound man can then make into any other sound he wants or needs.
 
However: many drummers don't realize the difference in requirements for miked vs. unmiked. When you're miked you can expect to be using some muffling, or premuffled heads, a port in the reso, and JAW tuning.


Agree with everything but the JAW tuning, particularly in the studio. JAW tuning with a PS3 for example puts the pitch of the drum way down in the sub region where its difficult to make it speak in the mix.

Unless there is a very specific sound trying to be achieved, some level of muffling will always be needed in the studio. Studio playing is not the "black art" some would have you believe but it does have different requirements than live
 
Agree with everything but the JAW tuning, particularly in the studio. JAW tuning with a PS3 for example puts the pitch of the drum way down in the sub region where its difficult to make it speak in the mix.

Unless there is a very specific sound trying to be achieved, some level of muffling will always be needed in the studio. Studio playing is not the "black art" some would have you believe but it does have different requirements than live

I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply that PS3s ought to be tuned at JAW, just that JAW was a common tuning for studio and live/miked work.

As a longtime user of PS3s I know that they do not sound their best at JAW, but need to be a little higher to really sound good. I have, however, used ported PS3 resos at JAW when miked to good effect, so long as the batter is a bit higher.
 
I'm going to start using the foam strips used on marching bass drums. It goes inside just on the edge and dampens the head without interfering with the tuning of the heads or the airflow inside the drum. I love an open sound for jazz, but it just doesn't fit all styles and venues. Pillows absorb all the sound of the shell whether or not they press into the heads for dampening.
 
Back
Top