DW sold to Roland?

AzHeat

Platinum Member
Buying up the competition before there's any damage makes the most sense to me. DW's electronic aspirations was likely too scary for Roland.
 

JimmyM

Platinum Member
Haven't DW already done cost savings exercises?
Companies get bought when they start to fail. There is no sign DW are a failing company, quite the opposite.
St Louis Music was doing well when Ampeg got sold, too. The owner sold because he wanted to retire.
 

BenOBrienSmith

Senior Member
Drums arent built by machines. Shells, sure. Sanding, finishing, and assembly are all done by hand. Stopping production to train new employees loses money. Startup production with new employees will be slower and have more errors, which loses money. It's not a financially viable move.
Keep in mind that new employees are hired all the time and there's often cross training, promotion, etc. I don't know anything about Roland's approach to production but the Japanese developed quite a bit with Lean Manufacturing (something I experience firsthand at D'Addario) for minimizing waste. Often times this requires shutting things down to better assess all aspects of the process. It's an investment in the long term. I also watched this happen and was part of it when D'Addario acquired ProMark.

As for cost savings exercises, continuous improvement requires a willingness to improve continuously...the job is never done. Maybe Roland will leave them along 100% but maybe (hopefully) they'll also bring some fresh perspective to the table.
 

JimmyM

Platinum Member
Buying up the competition before there's any damage makes the most sense to me. DW's electronic aspirations was likely too scary for Roland.
But DW’s R&D budget could only take them so far, I suppose. I could see it going well into the $10+ millions to tool up and stock up enough to meet the initial demand.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
Who knows what the motivation. DW could have spent a ton going to market, just to have Roland one up them the next year. Competition wise, it could have been interesting. I've been waiting forever for someone to come out with a competition worthy e-drum kit. Yamaha has done well in the past, but that was so long ago. A few others came and went and pretty much today is Roland (junk but useable) at $$$$$ and total junk at $$ with nothing in between.

Something new will be nice for a change. Something decent and affordable would be incredible!
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
Keep in mind that new employees are hired all the time and there's often cross training, promotion, etc.
Oh I get it. Every single time a new person was put on my line production slowed and mistakes went up. That new employee can't work as fast but wants to prove themselves. Instead of paying attention they try to force it.

I was responsible for production. All of it. The only department I didnt have to be involved in was the woodshop. Boxes not built, my fault. Paint not finished, my fault. Pre-assembly not done, my fault. Assembly not done, my fault. Assembly done wrong, my fault. Stickers put on wrong, my fault. Cabinet packaged wrong/incomplete, my fault. Basically everything was on me, including training and babysitting new employees.

I had to red card (damage claim) many more things with new folks than old. Simple fact is old employees know their job inside and out. They are faster and better at it because they do it everyday.
 

yammyfan

Senior Member
A few others came and went and pretty much today is Roland (junk but useable) at $$$$$ and total junk at $$ with nothing in between.
That has been my experience, unfortunately. The Roland kits I've played were junk, and they were mid-tier kits, not bottom of the barrel. The fact that DW is associated with that in any way really pains me.

I'll try to keep an open mind but as some have pointed out - "nothing will change" lasts just a few months and then inevitably, everything changes.
 
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bud7h4

Silver Member
Peddling hybrid acoustic/electronic drums and choosing DW for that abomination.

I feel sick.
It's the future - that's the simple fact of it.

Sadly, all they will have to do is convince people that's true. As if we don't make the future ourselves.
Corporation: "This is what you like now."
consumers: "Yes, we like that now."
 
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BenOBrienSmith

Senior Member
Oh I get it. Every single time a new person was put on my line production slowed and mistakes went up. That new employee can't work as fast but wants to prove themselves. Instead of paying attention they try to force it.

I was responsible for production. All of it. The only department I didnt have to be involved in was the woodshop. Boxes not built, my fault. Paint not finished, my fault. Pre-assembly not done, my fault. Assembly not done, my fault. Assembly done wrong, my fault. Stickers put on wrong, my fault. Cabinet packaged wrong/incomplete, my fault. Basically everything was on me, including training and babysitting new employees.

I had to red card (damage claim) many more things with new folks than old. Simple fact is old employees know their job inside and out. They are faster and better at it because they do it everyday.
It's unfortunate to see new employees/training referred to so negatively here. This speaks volumes about what the culture is like, where priorities are, and the value placed on new hires. It doesn't NEED to be like this but that sort of change has to start at the top.
 

Ryan Culberson

Well-known Member
Just wondering out loud here… since I use DW drums and Roland electronics on every gig and recording session, do youse guys think they’ll give me first class seats on the Death Star when it’s fully operational?

🌈🦄💋
 

BenOBrienSmith

Senior Member
It's not negativity, its truth.

People who do the same thing everyday are better at it than people who have never done it. Simple fact.
This is truth/fact but it doesn't have to be a bad thing in the grand scheme of things. They way you described it is full of negativity (ex: new people slowed your line, new people increased mistakes). Maybe the training wasn't so great. Maybe the training process wasn't designed to work in parallel with primary manufacturing. Looking at the big picture and recognizing opportunities is key. By your logic, a manufacturing operation should never hire or train someone new on a task because it slows things down and that costs money.

What I'm saying is that it's a matter of looking at it and planning for it as an investment in future growth. This isn't obvious to everyone and that's okay. But it certainly can lead to a toxic work environment- this goes for offices, performing ensembles, or anywhere a team of individuals is responsible for a portion of a larger task.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
This is truth/fact but it doesn't have to be a bad thing in the grand scheme of things. They way you described it is full of negativity (ex: new people slowed your line, new people increased mistakes). Maybe the training wasn't so great. Maybe the training process wasn't designed to work in parallel with primary manufacturing. Looking at the big picture and recognizing opportunities is key. By your logic, a manufacturing operation should never hire or train someone new on a task because it slows things down and that costs money.

What I'm saying is that it's a matter of looking at it and planning for it as an investment in future growth. This isn't obvious to everyone and that's okay. But it certainly can lead to a toxic work environment- this goes for offices, performing ensembles, or anywhere a team of individuals is responsible for a portion of a larger task.
Look at it how you want, but its true and you agree. I dont make the rules, I only follow them.

I had to teach folks how to even use a drill. How to take out and insert the battery, how to change drive direction, and even how to insert/remove the bits. That's not negativity, its reality.
 

BenOBrienSmith

Senior Member
Look at it how you want, but its true and you agree. I dont make the rules, I only follow them.

I had to teach folks how to even use a drill. How to take out and insert the battery, how to change drive direction, and even how to insert/remove the bits. That's not negativity, its reality.
You had the opportunity to train a new team of individuals who I'm sure you empowered to rise through the ranks as you established a culture of transparency where opportunities for improvement were often identified first by the individuals doing the work...right? I suppose you can look at it as "I had to" do those things but hopefully that wasn't the attitude that you projected to those that you were training.

Lots of people overlook the cultural aspect of the workplace and it tends to be one of the greatest failures (and opportunities!). You stated a lot of things as singular fact and, "that's just the way it is," rather than recognizing opportunity and big-picture thinking. Growth only happens when something changes...
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
You had the opportunity to train a new team of individuals who I'm sure you empowered to rise through the ranks as you established a culture of transparency where opportunities for improvement were often identified first by the individuals doing the work...right? I suppose you can look at it as "I had to" do those things but hopefully that wasn't the attitude that you projected to those that you were training.

Lots of people overlook the cultural aspect of the workplace and it tends to be one of the greatest failures (and opportunities!). You stated a lot of things as singular fact and, "that's just the way it is," rather than recognizing opportunity and big-picture thinking. Growth only happens when something changes...
I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying. The program was already in place. I was there to make sure it ran efficiently and effectively, not modify it. I was not management, only the floor supervisor.

The things I did change were personal standards put in place by the person I replaced. I didnt care what you did as long as the work was done on time and correctly. I ditched a no phones policy, a no radios policy, timed bathroom visits, that sort of thing. And once I took over, we never once missed a deadline. All I asked was to be on time and do your job and try to enjoy yourself while doing it. That includes the slower new people.
 

I-P

Well-known Member
Cool.

Drums that are/can be both acoustic and electronic. Seems to be an interesting future for the drum set.
Seems electronic components can be removed for full acoustic. Nice.
I bet there will be some subscription-based BS that will just sh!t me, but it is almost what I expect for the corp's these days.

The cymbal claim seems a little trickier to accomplish however. (I don't know enough about so I'm likely wrong/missing something).
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
Not sure why almost everything becomes an argument around here. Fact- DW will be answering to the mother ship moving forward. If the three at DW are still there after a year, if Roland says 'jump', their only option will be 'how high?'. Roland will no doubt cut costs. They may try and integrate some of the DW research and engineering into their e-kits, but if that doesn't work, they will scrap it. That's just how it is. DW left Gretsch alone for the most part, but also helped them become more productive. Great, but rare. Most acquisitions don't overwhelmingly go that way.

I still feel the acoustic brands will lose their heritage and mojo for the most part. DW will likely be around, but I really don't feel Gretsch and Slingerland will, unless someone intentionally works to preserve them. My prediction is, the three will become one and the final product will be half of all three combined at best. With respects to something subscription based....you can bet your life on it. Hell, even some BBQ grills are internet connected with an app and subscription. Gone will the days when real men cooked their meat to perfection. Drums will soon too and I bet every new midi file will cost something.

Can't wait till the day drums become incompatible with the new iPhone or Android without an upgrade. :rolleyes:
 

I-P

Well-known Member
If the corp's push subscription/loot crate BS into future hybrid drums, peeps will likely say "Phark it", back to full acoustic where I don't have to pay anyone anything. "Suck that middle finger big drum corp".
(I'm terrible at smack-downs). 🤣
 

GetAgrippa

Diamond Member
So will Mr Goode be tapping on ekit shells and label their fundamental? Will you have DW finishes and bearing edges on the Roland ekits? So many questions. Can you buy Roland that sounds exactly like DW acoustic kit. What about PDP maybe sell to Alesi so lesser brands unify LOL.
 

JimmyM

Platinum Member
So will Mr Goode be tapping on ekit shells and label their fundamental? Will you have DW finishes and bearing edges on the Roland ekits? So many questions. Can you buy Roland that sounds exactly like DW acoustic kit. What about PDP maybe sell to Alesi so lesser brands unify LOL.
I would bet money on seeing PDP budget acoustic/electric kits.
 
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