drummers who can't read music notation

[Chris Whitten]

Sorry. Never met or played with a guitar player that didn't intrinsically know 4 bars or 8 or 12 or 16.

I ran a recording masterclass with multiple drummers. They were all given the sings a few days in advance (to prepare). Not one turned up with any notation, not even a cheat sheet of any kind.
The outro was 16 bars with a stop at the end. When each drummer recorded the song, 9 out of 10 drummers just kept playing, they din't stop after 16 bars.
To me that is unprofessional. You didn't prepare, you didn't even count the bars at the end.
Being able to read, even very simple cheat sheets, gives you an edge over people who can do neither. Why wouldn't you want to be better than the next drummer?

 

[MattRitter]

In my experience...

One of the most valuable aspects of learning to read is that it teaches you the "parameters of the game," so to speak. It teaches you that there are these things called "beats"...which can be divided...and also SUBdivided. It teaches you that these beats are grouped into little sets called "measures"...which are sometimes also referred to as "bars." And so on and so on...

All of that might sound obvious, but as a person who has taught over 16K private lessons (often to people with previous drumming experience), I can tell you that it generally is NOT obvious. Very often, people learning exclusively "by ear" do not instinctively figure out how the underlying system actually works. For the most part, they think they hear something "fast" on a tom, so they attempt to play something "fast" on a tom.

I once gave a lesson to someone who had been playing for over 30 years, often in local bands. During the lesson, I asked him to play 2 measures of a groove, followed by a 2-measure fill. He proceeded to play half a measure of a groove, followed by a half-measure fill. I realized immediately that over 30 years of learning exclusively "by ear" had not prepared him to function in even the most basic truly professional situation.

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

Being able to read, even very simple cheat sheets, gives you an edge over people who can do neither. Why wouldn't you want to be better than the next drummer?

Because in 90% of the real bands with real drummers out there who don't hang out on forums like this put their bands together for bars/restaurant gigs just listen to music and material. Texts like "Hey check this tune out let's work on it next time we get together" with a Youtube link to something like Susan Tedeschi's version of Little by Little. Never any charts or notation involved - except for jazz.

All the jazz cats I hang and play with use I Real Pro charts. Or have that little pocket book of a zillion chord charts. Those don't do drummers any good it's chord charts for the folks playing keys and sax and horns and guitar and bass. But our singer in our jazz combo also listens to many many versions of a song to figure out what the song really sounds like. It ain't just the chord charts. What's it sound like. Feel like.

Other bands playing covers and blues and country just learn by ear. The 4 bar intervals whether tune is in 3 or 4 are just natural 4-8-12-16. You can feel it. You can hear it don't even need to count.

Oh - one other exception- Christian/ church/ gospel for large churches. I have a friend that plays that genre. Very detailed drum notations. Click tracks. In ear monitors. Very tightly arranged.

 

[Chris Whitten]

You can hear it don't even need to count.

Like I saids, the drummers I taught couldn't hear 16 bars, nor could they tell the song was winding down and finishing. They just kept playing oblivious.
I've done plenty of bar gigs. I sometimes write a cheat sheet out, especially when after playing a song 200 times the guitarist wants to change the guitar solo from 8 bars to 32 bars. It reminds me what I've been asked to do.
I did a tour with a guitarist who learned everything by ear. On one song he had to play a power chord right in the middle of a very quiet section. Every night he either forgot to play the power chord, or played it in the wrong place.
These are my ACTUAL experiences, not just theory.

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

In my experience...

One of the most valuable aspects of learning to read is that it teaches you the "parameters of the game," so to speak. It teaches you that there are these things called "beats"...which can be divided...and also SUBdivided. It teaches you that these beats are grouped into little sets called "measures"...which are sometimes also referred to as "bars." And so on and so on...

All of that might sound obvious, but as a person who has taught over 16K private lessons (often to people with previous drumming experience), I can tell you that it generally is NOT obvious. Very often, people learning exclusively "by ear" do not instinctively figure out how the underlying system actually works. For the most part, they think they hear something "fast" on a tom, so they attempt to play something "fast" on a tom.

I once gave a lesson to someone who had been playing for over 30 years, often in local bands. During the lesson, I asked him to play 2 measures of a groove, followed by a 2-measure fill. He proceeded to play half a measure of a groove, followed by a half-measure fill. I realized immediately that over 30 years of learning exclusively "by ear" had not prepared him to function in even the most basic truly professional situation.

But - if that 30 year veteran has been playing in bands for 30 years, do it differently. If they're a blues drummer playing music in bands on stages the last 30 years, put a basic blues tune on and have them play along. They'll nail all the fills to solos and back to singing sections. Two measures of a groove followed by two measures of a fill ain't how that veteran thinks about playing. It's real world vs paper world.

 

[MattRitter]

Two measures of a groove followed by two measures of a fill ain't how that veteran thinks about playing. It's real world vs paper world.

There really wasn't anything "paper" about it. I was a living, breathing human being asking the drummer to do something very straightforward...and he didn't even understand what I was asking. Why? Because he was illiterate in his chosen language of music.

In this scenario, the living, breathing human being who made the request was a drum teacher. However, it could just as easily have been a bandleader or conductor.

 

[Chris Whitten]

But - if that 30 year veteran has been playing in bands for 30 years, do it differently. If they're a blues drummer playing music in bands on stages the last 30 years, put a basic blues tune on and have them play along. They'll nail all the fills to solos and back to singing sections.

But that IS limiting.
I've been gigging since 1977. Many times songs have an extra bar in the verse, or an extra turnaround in the outro before the end.
I can anticipate a lot of things in a jam session or audition, 8 bars or 16 .... or 12 bars if it's a blues structure.
But if you solely rely on instinct and habit you'll eventually get tripped up. So why allow that to happen when with a little extra work you can be better than the average drummer?

 

[Tamboreter]

So as I’ve gone along, there’s been less and less drum notation reading and more and more seeing the actual song that everybody else is playing and interpreting that.

This is exactly what I'm required to do. I get the same lead sheet or full music that everyone else in the band gets.

Christian/ church/ gospel for large churches. I have a friend that plays that genre. Very detailed drum notations. Click tracks. In ear monitors. Very tightly arranged.

This would especially be true for groups that record like, Hillsong, Bethel and Elevation.

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

But that IS limiting.
I've been gigging since 1977. Many times songs have an extra bar in the verse, or an extra turnaround in the outro before the end.
I can anticipate a lot of things in a jam session or audition, 8 bars or 16 .... or 12 bars if it's a blues structure.
But if you solely rely on instinct and habit you'll eventually get tripped up. So why allow that to happen when with a little extra work you can be better than the average drummer?

The extra work is practicing with my band(s). I do make notes. And yeah since I can read a bit of music, given my intro to playing drums was a new Acrolite and lessons back in the 60's, I'll write down anything special or out of ordinary.

That song I referenced - Little by Little. We just started playing it. Played it first time live at on Monday. Harp player sent text to us all with link to Tedeschi Youtube about a month ago. I was unfamiliar with the song. I had a relative that was gravely ill so I didn't pay any attention to it. I showed up at practice and was completely unprepared. Besides the "bit by bit" stops, there are a few other nuances throughout, too. But I just made notes not musical notation. Nobody else in band looked at music on paper. The next week I practiced playing at home to it in my headphones. Next week's practice I nailed it. Had to figure out a way for whole band to start it (not just a one-two-uh-uh start lol) but it was all by ear. Same way every other blues/rock/country/rockabilly band I've ever played with or subbed for learned their set lists. Maybe they're all so good and know music so well they can just listen and learn

I may also sometimes write down actual music notation of a bar or two if I'm having trouble with something. But I'll listen to it over and over on Youtube and then transcribe the troubling section(s). But it's listening first. Not playing from paper first.

My wife - a pretty well known folk musician (in her genre) who tours a bit and does festivals and teaching - is on a mission to bring folk music back to roots of how folk music used to be learned - by listening. Listening to grandpa or grandma play fiddle on front porch. Carter Family. Jean Ritchie (who played on stage with my wife a few times and was a friend/ mentor). No paper no "tab": Listen. Listen. Listen.

 

[joedrum]

Very true many drummers don't read especially rock drummers. I knew a kid who spent about 8 years doing marching band drumming. His snare chops were unreal. He could read drum notation very well. Obviously playing is the best teacher but learning to read will expand your knowledge and lead to a lot more opportunity to work... which in turn will make you a better player. BTW I'm a horrible reader of drum music. By the time I figure out what it means the song is over. I envy someone who gets a phone call to fill in for a drummer and all he needs is the sheet music.

 

[JimmyM]

Because in 90% of the real bands with real drummers out there who don't hang out on forums like this put their bands together for bars/restaurant gigs just listen to music and material. Texts like "Hey check this tune out let's work on it next time we get together" with a Youtube link to something like Susan Tedeschi's version of Little by Little. Never any charts or notation involved - except for jazz.

All the jazz cats I hang and play with use I Real Pro charts. Or have that little pocket book of a zillion chord charts. Those don't do drummers any good it's chord charts for the folks playing keys and sax and horns and guitar and bass. But our singer in our jazz combo also listens to many many versions of a song to figure out what the song really sounds like. It ain't just the chord charts. What's it sound like. Feel like.

Other bands playing covers and blues and country just learn by ear. The 4 bar intervals whether tune is in 3 or 4 are just natural 4-8-12-16. You can feel it. You can hear it don't even need to count.

Oh - one other exception- Christian/ church/ gospel for large churches. I have a friend that plays that genre. Very detailed drum notations. Click tracks. In ear monitors. Very tightly arranged.

So you think learning to read only benefits you when you play in a band that uses charts?

 

[WhereIsTheOne?!]

The level of insecurity on this thread with people trying to justify why they couldn't be bothered to read is quite remarkable.

Learning to read is an additional skill that makes it easier. Why would you actively choose to limit yourself and then tell others to do the same?

The reason I can't read well is because I was lazy. It's limited me in quite significant ways. It's not a point of pride.

 

[Chris Whitten]

I may also sometimes write down actual music notation of a bar or two if I'm having trouble with something. But I'll listen to it over and over on Youtube and then transcribe the troubling section(s). But it's listening first. Not playing from paper first.

I can walk and chew gum. By writing down the arrangement my mind isn't distracted by thinking about what comes next. My mind is fully engaged in listening to the other musicians and my own playing, making sure I'm being musical and fitting in. I'm not reading bar to bar, but I can glance down and see what is happening next. I'm also not counting in my head and trying to remember the arrangement we all agreed on.

 

[Chris Whitten]

My wife - a pretty well known folk musician (in her genre) who tours a bit and does festivals and teaching - is on a mission to bring folk music back to roots of how folk music used to be learned - by listening. Listening to grandpa or grandma play fiddle on front porch. Carter Family. Jean Ritchie (who played on stage with my wife a few times and was a friend/ mentor). No paper no "tab": Listen. Listen. Listen.

Yeah, you seem to have a bizarre notion that anyone who is reading is not listening.
Also, folk music was learned over weeks and months of playing the same tunes over and over. Music evolves. I don't want to be limited to playing traditional songs, I don't want to be limited to playing a song with mistakes for a few days before I finally get it and can play it without a mistake.

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

So you think learning to read only benefits you when you play in a band that uses charts?

It doesn't even benefit me with our jazz combo that uses I Real Pro.

I really can't think of any local blues/rock/country/rockabilly band that actually play gigs and festivals that use charts. And I've subbed for a lotta them they never gave me drum charts or notations. Some/most of their fronts have a music stand or iPad with lyrics because of their insecurity even if they've been singing The Thrill Is Gone for 30 years lol but that's it.

If I played in a big jazz band or big band yeah I'd probably have to use a drum chart. Gospel/ Christian yeah. But not many other situations. It's just never done with the 90% of drummers outside us OCP drummers on forums like this.

Good musician-drummers can read. Best can sightread well. And yeah those jazz cats the good one's are also great listeners!

I'm not insecure. I can read music. I can't sightread to save my a**. I'm just relating real-life for average drummer situations.

I cannot believe that any of you playing blues or rock actually dig up a drum chart when learning a new blues or rock song. No way. If you do then, wow, ok cool are you BS'ing us here just to prove a point but you don't really do that - OK good for you but not for me. Are you really saying if your band wants to learn Little By Little you're gonna dig up a drum chart? Really????

Not using charts ain't a point of pride - it's just realistic for average local blues/rock/country/rockabilly bands playing locally tonite and tomorrow at bars and restaurants.

 

[ADrummerGuy]

Over simplifying things.. To me, there's drum notation, then there's everything else. At the most basic sense, all (that I'm aware of) involve understanding the fundamentals of reading rhythm.

Reading rhythm is stupid simple and opens doors for drummers that otherwise would be closed. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of drum method books on the market that almost everyone can benefit and progress from ranging from day 1 of holding the sticks through the most ridiculous of intensiveness of advanced. Something for everyone.

Reading musical notation is the same rhythmically but in my world is the absolute most common of all for playing or recording in bands. I'm most often handed lead sheets, piano parts and sometimes a larger more encompassing score. As a drummer who can read it's all about interpreting the content while... most importantly... using your ears!

Some of the takeaways are understanding melody, chord changes, musical form and arrangements - how all the parts fit together.

I've been hired for more jobs than I can possibly count because of reading and listening skills - both live and studio (a local stuff).

Then again, I have a couple drummer friends who can't identify a quarter note from an eighth note and they've worked for decades in various bands.

I take much of it for granted because I've been reading musical notation for almost 50 years. I've never regretted it and don't know anyone who has learned how to read who has regretted it either.

All depends on context and circles you want to find yourself in. The band I play in now assumes we can all read musical notation.

Find your path and go!

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

All depends on context and circles you want to find yourself in. The band I play in now assumes we can all read musical notation.

Yes. Exactly. No one's gonna hire me as a studio drummer they want me to sight read. Or play in any of the local big bands they're gonna give me a chart. But most every blues or country or rockabilly local act yeah I can hang with any of them and never look at any paper.

 

[joedrum]

So is "Stick Control" the greatest drumming instruction book of all time? I took lessons from a very good drummer in the Boston area, Joe Pet, who took lessons from Alan Dawson. Anyway, Joe said if it's not the best book of all time it's one if them. He took that book to places I hadn't thought of before. Instead of just LLRL on the hands he would incorporate all 4 limbs to the different exercises and apply them to songs. At the time it was such an eye opener.

 

[SkullDrummer]

reading basic sheet music is pretty easy.
drum fills are where it gets hard.

 

[joedrum]

Here's a sports analogy:
Arguably the 2 greatest hitters in MLB history are Ted Williams and Babe Ruth (my brother would argue Musial too). Where Williams was a ball speed, rotation, angle, zone, stance, bat speed, round bat hitting a round ball and hitting it square in a millisecond science type of hitter - even writing a book The Science of Hitting, Ruth was a see the ball hit the ball hitter who ate hotdogs between innings. 2 of the absolute best ever with two totally different approaches to their craft. So I guess being able to read just comes down to one's approach. It certainly has advantages if you want to go that route but at the same time isn't necessary to being a successful drummer.